Using E-cigarette in a meeting

[StrawberryShortbread2001]

I'm a support worker and work on a ward. E-cigs are allowed in the communal rooms (lounge, dining room) and the bedrooms. The only time they're not allowed is in ward round.

We were having a community meeting which we have every week. E-cigarettes are allowed to be used during the meeting. This was a special meeting about a certain issue so as well as the usual service users, nurses, support workers, occupational therapists and social worker - the consultant, head social worker, psychologist and hospital manager were there. One of the service users was engaging and putting a point across with a bit of back and forth. She was using her e-cig when not talking. Suddenly the hospital manager looked at her a bit horrified and said 'are you smoking?' She said 'No! I'm using a e-cigarette' The consultant then jumped in to say she shouldn't be using it. She was embarrassed and confused at being called out on it and stopped engaging in the meeting. At the end she spoke to the consultant to tell him they always used e-cigarettes in the merting and he told her she should have known not to use it and she needs to be more flexible in her thinking.

Am I right to think 1. If e-cigs weren't to be used it should have been announced at the beginning of the meeting and 2. She shouldn't have been called out in public like that

It caused the service user a lot of upset and has really wound me up!

Fact is they don’t kill people.

I think it should be treated the same way as smoking

I think they should be treated as a much better alternative to smoking and subject to fewer restrictions.

Nannyogg - given that they are not as toxic, why do you think they are as horrible as cigarettes?

@kerning - everyone should have known and if not why not. I think if they were unsure it should have been brought up privately not in the middle of the meeting.

For everyone thinking it is a strange policy etc. You are allowed to use an e-cigarette in your lounge - why shouldn't service users be able to? Most smoke but are prevented from doing that when they want/atall.

OP can you tell us why they're not allowed on ward rounds?

e-cigs are generally treated the same as smoking and banned.
I'm not sure why you'd think they'd be any different and I'm amazed that people vape in meetings !!

Vaping generally smells awful (especially those sweet flavours) and I reckon they're a health timebomb that will only be realised in a few years time....

Yanbu. Rules should be clear to everyone before the meeting.
And, I know mm is rabidly anti smoking/vaping, but if someone is going to get upset about a patient with an e cig in the same room as them then I think they have led a very sheltered life! And possibly need to get out more. It wasn't a business meeting with the line manager and it wasn't a crack pipe.

e-cigs are generally treated the same as smoking and banned. - no they are not.

@Mt2017 - why wouldn't she think it appropriate when she has been told it is appropriate at every other meeting?

By the way she wasn't the one using an e-cig - I think the manager noticed her as she was talking.

e-cigs are generally treated the same as smoking and banned. - no they are not.

I think they generally are.

Pubs
Restaurants
Council buildings
Public transport
Shops

And that's just off the top of my head.

It's ridiculous she got hauled up for it, agreed

Sorry so many people can't read or understand your post

There's no law banning ecigs from anywhere, allowing our disallowing them is at the discretion of the business, property, institution or whatever

Plenty of pubs allow them

Why can people not read; it was the service user, NOT a professional!
@StrawberryShortbread2001 I totally agree, that it was dealt with poorly. The poor individual must have felt mortified. If its a known rule that e-cigs are allowed, then she absolutely should not have been called out during the meeting. Either way, there are better ways of dealing with this and the manager and Consultant should have responded with more kindness and thoughtfulness than they did

e-cigs are generally treated the same as smoking and banned

In most places where cigarettes are banned so are e-cigarettes and vapes in my experience.

I guess the confusion here is that it was held in a place where they are normally allowed, and the previous meetings it being allowed. As well as it being a service user and in their own rooms.

It would obviously be polite for people to ask before using them. They are not entirely smell free and not everyone wants to be around them.

@Worra - she wasn't the only one using it. Why would she know it is innapropriate if she has told it is fine at every other meeting?

As everyone else has said it's a ridiculous rule given the health implications for everyone in the room.

BUT if it is normally allowed why did no one stand up for the patient and say- "sorry hospital manager but we do usually allow vaping..carry on service user."?!

Advice to NHS boards is to treat ecigs differently to cigarettes, because there isn't a public health reason to treat them the same. www.gov.uk/government/collections/e-cigarettes-and-vaping-policy-regulation-and-guidance

My sensibilities hurt.

The person ‘told off’ was, to be blunt, a patient, under secure care.

E-cigs are not vapes, there’s usually no vapour, or smoke, no smell or any effect on other people nearby, maybe just a light on the tip IIRC.

Vulnerable person being told off, in public, by a person with authority...yeah I think I’d retreat into myself too

You've provided two different answers regarding the number of service users currently using e-cigarettes? Is it all service users or the majority? The distinction is very important as to when you need to urgently change your policy.
You need to examine your policy regarding the use of all devices apart from nicotine patches/ inhalers/ chewing gum as what do you think that non smoking service users can say or do in such a situation if they find e-cigarettes an intolerable environment to live in?
Secure units are often intimidating environments to be new in at the best of times, so if majority rule seems to say it's ok to use e-cigarettes almost everywhere, do you really think the poor women will say anything or suffer in silence due to peer pressure?
The consultant should have waited until the end of the meeting rather than embarrass the service user, but at least now this policy can now be changed for the health of the units staff as well as any service user, smoking or non smoking who would find such an environment difficult to live in.

Vapes aren't allowed - only e-cigarettes. They don't cause hardly any smoke/smell

I use e-cigarettes which, as you point out, are very different from those huge cloud producing vaping machines. I think this might be what pps are envisaging. You'd barely notice what comes out of an e-cig

If vaping has previously been allowed then the (presumably vulnerable) service user wasn't really doing anything wrong. The consultant was out of order to make a show of her. He could easily have politely asked that she stop. I'm not surprised that she ceased engaging; she probably felt humiliated! Surely the consultant's behaviour turned out to be counterproductive in this instance.

I don't know the service user's issues so can't be sure if the consultant was making an overly personal criticism or giving medical advice, but it does sound like they were very harsh. Again, this could be counterproductive.

I feel for your service user. Surely a bit of consideration is needed.

@ishotmr - the hospital manager (she) surely should have been aware that e-cigarettes are allowed on every ward in the hospital? It is hospital policy that she should be aware of.

E-cigs and vapes are the same thing. It's thre exact same technology

Not all vapes kick out a big cloud

I think some of the thread responders really need to learn to read. It isn’t professional to smoke in a meeting, but these are service users! If someone is in a secure inpatient unit it is so important to preserve as much freedom as you can despite the restrictions they must have. E-Cigs is one of these

OP can you Please answer my question?

Why are they banned on ward rounds?

I think the answer to that could play a big part in why the consultant said she shouldn't be using it.