to think rising levels of neuro diverse children in society is partly due to rising ages of pregnant mothers?

[staydazzling]

im not condeming anything here btw, i would like to make that clear. and i know this may not go down well on here, donning hard hat but whenever theres discussions about how neurological diversity in children has risen ASD, ADHD etc in society, the conversion is often about MMR Ipads or diet, discipline etc which of course all important variables but i feel its unhelpful that a lot of would be mothers are not informed of the risk past 35, of downs syndrome, autism etc, its obviously much better financially to be older and have a family. aibu to feel its the elephant inthe room regarding rising levels of children with ASD, ADHD, Etc??

My ds is severely autistic, I had him at 34 and dp is 9 years older than me, so perhaps another factor.

This is my field so I can tell you its down to better diagnosis and understanding of ASD's. Also the recognition of ASD's in genetic conditions some of which are only just being understood. For example If you took all downs syndrome children born then took the ages of the mothers into account then your hypothesis would have merit as downs is more common with older mothers but if you look at the stats across all children identified then I think you find no specific age group.
My eldest is high functioning aspergersand I had him at... 18. My youngest has a genetic condition and has asd and I had her at 36.
I recently wrote a report on this very subject. There is plenty of research papers available for you too look at if you are interested, makes for good reading

I had my autistic children at 28 and 32. I have two autistic siblings. Three of my cousins are autistic. Two of my nephews are. My father and one uncle almost certainly are but were never assessed or diagnosed. When we went through our family tree with DS1's neurologist and talked about various family members there was a big old streak of traits running right through it on both my side and DH's side.

Its genetic.

I think previously there have always been families in which ‘cousin John didn’t speak until he was four and then he was a funny little chap’ but the child grows up and ‘fits in’ as much as possible and gets by. Whereas now there is more early intervention and the child would be identified and diagnosed.

I once listened to a talk by a woman who specialises in Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and she said that it happens fairly often that autism is diagnosed when the real issue is FASD. She said this was quite common in adopted children whose background is not always known. They get a diagnosis of ASD or ADHD when the underlying condition is FASD. I’m not sure if this is more of an issue than recent years with mothers drinking more in pregnancy than historically?

Fasd has quite obvious physical features and connected physical disability doesn't it? Why would health professionals be ignoring these? In order for my ds to get his ASD diagnosis he had to have lots of tests to rule out other possible causes/ diagnoses so i'm very sceptical about this claim.

In order for my ds to get his ASD diagnosis he had to have lots of tests to rule out other possible causes/ diagnoses so i'm very sceptical about this claim

Same here. Both DS1 and DS2 had genetic testing to rule out conditions such as Fragile X and that was only after we had gone through all the pre-assessment stuff where they look at developmental history, parenting, external factors (e.g., huge life changes, attachment problems, etc) and so on to rule out any other causes before deciding to look at ASD. The ASD assessment itself included cognitive testing, occupational therapy assessment, observation at home, at school, and at the clinic, group sessions with other children being assessed, a full family history, assessment by a specialist teacher attached to the neurology team, a full physical examination, a SALT assessment, and various "games" (tests) with a psychiatrist and a neurologist. It was very thorough and the results showed no doubt over the diagnosis.

I have 5 DC. All have the same father.

• We were 22 & 24 when NT DC1 was born.
• DC2 has ASD and dyspraxia, and is only 18 months younger than DC1.
• DC3 has ADHD and ASD, and dyslexia. We were still only 26 and 28.
• DC4 is completely NT. (28 and 30)
• DC5 ADHD, dyspraxia, dyslexia, 43 and 45.

I have subsequently been dx with ADHD. The clinic assessing DC3 want to test DH for ASD but he refuses. He doesn't read or write very well and spent a lot of school in remedial classes. We suspect dyslexia.

My uncle was born in the 40s to parents both under 35. He is incredibly clever, but very odd, with passionate interests. His DGS is clearly ASD (but the parents refuse to "label").

My BIL was born in the 50s. Very clever man with an incredibly short fuse. Very much like our DC3, in fact.

The way primary schools are set up now does neuro diverse children no favours. There is too much noise, too much movement and too much distraction in a modern classroom. DC3 thrived when moved to a private school where they sat in rows facing the teacher and all did the same thing at the same time.

I can’t remember the statistics that the woman gave now but I think it was something like only a third of FASD cases have physical indications.

Please can you share your scientific evidence/source for the link on autism with older mothers. I was aware of the risk of Downs increasing in older mothers and so would be interested to read and verify this.

I feel increases are largely down to improved awareness and diagnosis , partic in girls who used to go largely undiagnosed eg for autism and of course faulty genes are being identified all the time.

Well mums can't do anything right can they. On another thread a woman was told she shouldn't have got pregnant at the age of 17 ...now we are being told too old. Unless you have money in which case you can do no wrong.

@RuffleCrow that’s not true to all who have FASD. Actually a very small percentage have physical characteristics.

Anecdotally I can tell you that of the four mums I am close to who have DCs diagnoses on the spectrum, one was 26, one 27, one 30 and the other 37. So I don’t think much of your hypothesis, I’m afraid.

I have two DS who are autistic with moderate learning difficulties. Born when I was 34 and 36 - DH 30 and 32.

No history of autism on either side of our families. Totally inexplicable. All genetic tests came back negative. 🤷‍♀️

No idea but I had my autistic child in my twenties.

I have nearly 30 cousins and would guess most of them could get an ASD diagnosis - most of their children have one (including me and mine - I'm on a waiting list). Apart from the high rate of dropping out of school (and often still ending up with a PhD, which half of us have), it's noticeable that none of the boys have had kids below the age of 40 - they just have all taken until around 30 to grow out of acting like teenagers, and were like young kids until age 15 or so.

So there may be a correlation with older fathers just because it takes ASD lads longer to get their act together enough to persuade someone to shag them (as BIL explained to me - apparently DH was very like dc1 as a kid, but round 18 he decided he wanted a girlfriend so started washing regularly, eating varied food, learning some manners, taking an interest in other people and in psychology, etc - took a while but by the time I met him he was doing very well).

I didn't think I had ASD because none of my friends thought I was wierd. 20 years later, most of our kids have ASD diagnoses and we're realising that we all met via the early Internet and geeky hobbies and actually... Though i have to admit, being neurotypical sounds really boring...

His violent outbursts happen randomly and in response to things like the noise of a crisp packet...or someone sneezing..or telling him no he can't eat chocolate This is my DS he is only 4. He would have been diagnosed with ASD a few years ago. He is always ready to explode he has a emotional dysfunction disorder and SPD. Everything has to be the same.
ASD is not usually violent, it is other issues alongside ASD unless sensory overload. ODD can cause a DC to be aggressive.
I fear for his future and I'm saving hard to get as much intervention as possible.

Why would you even start this?

I work in this area (I don’t diagnose) and I believe the lack of FASD in favour of ASD / ADHD is partly to do with blame. To diagnose a child with FAS puts responsibility with the mother and this creates a very difficult dynamic when trying to work with the family.

Even when the mother is an alcoholic or where the child has physical symptoms I have seen professionals avoid addressing the issue and go down the LD / ASD / ADHD and even PTSD route.

Oh and your older parent theory is rubbish.

The genetic link does exist, that is not to say it is hereditary or that every child with ASD has a parent with ASD. However, often after the child has gone through the diagnostic process a parent will recognise it in themselves or another family member.

Sometimes when we meet the parents it is clear that one or both are on the spectrum.

When we are talking about neurodiversity what conditions are included? These discussions seem to only focus on ADD, and possibly ADHD.

I do believe some cases of FAS are misdiagnosed as ASD. They use to say SPD was part of ASD now it is separate. SPD years ago was diagnosed as ASD. I'd have put my life my DS was ASD severe sensory issues, refusal to interact, selective mutism, severe out bursts, violent, destructive. He has MH issues the psychiatrist said 5 years earlier he would be misdiagnosed as having ASD. It is all very conflicting and difficult to deal with. On top of feeling guilty for giving birth to a DC with difficulties troubling their future.

@MelroseHigginbottom

Keep your skirt on Blouse the OP has a valid point, there's no need to take offence.

As it happens, I am irritated, not offended. And the OP does not have a "valid point". A valid question might have been "Does anyone know if the apparent rise in neuro-diverse conditions is linked to parental age?2 - rather than offering her opinion that a rag bag of unconnected conditions (Downs, autism ETC) be linked to what she thinks is 'the elephant in the room' - a mother;s age.

These are really important discussions.

Lots of really interesting stuff has been posted on this thread, by people who d know what they are talking about, or links to people who know what they are talking about.

I have no idea what I am talking about in terms of genetic, heritable, chromosomal or neurodiverse conditions, so I don't go offering my opinion of them on websites, especially where people are struggling to come to terms with these conditions in their children, worried about conceiving, etc etc.

It's fine not to know. There are other ways of posting about it than proffering uninformed opinion.

I never understand comments like this I always see a varied age range of mothers from 16-45 at birth. It could possibly be a factor in some cases but mostly it's through any age. There are a lot more factors to consider to be honest: complex genetics, more awareness, better medical care leading to children living, medication, environmental... etc

Also my partners mum had him 40 years ago at 42... older mothers have always been around!