To have a strict “no snacks” rule this young?

[SailorBee]

Hello all, looking for some preschooler food advice please.

First of all, I totally understand that it’s a developmental phase but my elder two DC (4 and 2.5) are driving me to distraction with their eating!

Every mealtime, whatever I make, they either “don’t like it”, they’re “full”, they want to bring toys or activities to the table and ignore their food, or they bang on about “pudding” all through the meal and hardly touch their food. And if one does it, it sets the other off too. They then spend the rest of the day between mealtimes whinging that they’re hungry.

We don’t do puddings after every meal, I don’t give snacks to graze on all day, I don’t let them get down and play as soon as they say they’re “full”, nor do I shout at them or force them to eat. Where am I going wrong?

When they say they’re hungry and they haven’t eaten their meal, but there is still a long time to go before the next meal, I usually reheat their uneaten breakfast/lunch, or occasionally give them toast and fruit if it’s something that doesn’t reheat, but WIBU to start a strict “no snacks between meals” (usually 5-6 hours) rule with children this young?

I just feel they really need to understand that not eating enough at mealtimes = feeling hungry. It’s also doing my head in faffing about with cooking and reheating food all day, and dealing with the “I’m hungry/I’m full/I want pudding” complaints constantly.

I also have a 10mo DD and I REALLY want to crack this before she starts joining in too 😫

TLDR: AIBU to say no food whatsoever between meals for a 4yo and 2yo?

Mid morning and mid-afternoon snack were pretty vital in our household. Sometimes the children weren't hungry and didn't need them, but during periods of lots of growing or lots of exercise, they would eat huge amounts at snack time.

Typical snacks would be cheese, oatcake and vegetable sticks; Greek yogurt with berries and oats/seeds/granola; hummus, pitta bread, cucumber and carrots; babybel and an apple; cold chicken with veg and maybe an oatcake or a banana.

They are now 10 and 13 and can go longer without food, although I suspect the 10 year old will start back on the snacks in a massive way when he hits his teen growth spurt. Kids aren't like adults - their nutritional needs change all the time as they grow, and sometimes smaller children will need to eat more frequently or bigger portions than bigger ones. DD aged 9 needed more food than she does aged 13.

Half French and in my forties. Chocolate sandwiches were an afternoon snack staple, and breakfast generally consisted of bread, butter, jam and hot chocolate. Lunches were better, though.

Not read the full thread.

I'm cutting down/put snacks here as mine would rather snack.

I keep their meals and reheat if necessary as I accept that when I serve a meal they may not be hungry.

Agree with pp, 5 or 6 hours is too long for a lot of kids and a fixed snack time is good. Snacks don't have to be unhealthy or a lot of effort. Mid-morning snack = selection from e.g.: small cheese sandwich, apple, handful of nuts, crackers and cheese, carrot sticks and hummous dip.... Afternoon tea similar, with buttered scone, crumpet or teacake as alternative. Plus glass of milk to drink. And the rule in my house was no food for an hour before a mealtime.

I needed to eat "little and often" - I'd sit for hours over a big meal, used to drive my mother a bit crazy. It would have been grim making mealtime food reappear (we didn't have microwaves in those days). No problem with buttered toast though! I think breadsticks and hummus are quite exciting (shows my age)

At less than a year my youngest started dropping food from her high chair. I said no and if she did it again she’d get down.

DS used to carefully a drop an item from his high chair to indicate "I've finished"

I’ve spent time in southern Italy, northern and southern France, Spain and Portugal. As a child, as a single adult and en famille with my own. They simply don’t snack like the brits do. They have meals at the table en famille and no snackIng in between. I accept that I can’t speak for the whole of Europe personally but there is a snacking trend here that in my experience is simply not mirrored on the continent.

They 100% should be having healthy snacks between meals if they want them.

The french diet isn't all that. Lots of sugar, especially for kids. Breakfast is a sweet drink and sweet food. Lots of meat and animal fat.

@Wheredidigowrongggggg
I’m with you. Sit up the table properly for meals no fannying about.
No constant snacking.
They will eat their meals if they are not full from snacking.

nothing wrong with meat! French diet and attitude to food is so much healthier than the one from this country. They are slowly getting worst, but they didn't use to be.

There are a lot less fat people in France too, strangely enough..

We don't do snacks either and if my dd doesn't want her dinner then that's fine but if she moans she's hungry I will reheat and that's what she can have.

I found when we allowed snacks that's all she would want and it drove me insane! Plus I hated wasting the food.

Five to six hours is a long time without food...for me.

I follow childcare's routine...for DCs...so something like breakfast 7ish, morning tea 9ish, lunch 11:30, nap or rest at 12, afternoon tea 3ish and then dinner at 6pm.

If we're going out I make up a lunch box and DCs can nose through that around those times. I just try to offer lots of healthy things and not make a fuss if DD1 doesn't want it but encourage touching, smelling, tasting foods. Admittedly I don't know how she survives as she seems to live on air.

Pudding is usually fruit or yoghurt. Sometimes I have to resort to a little game to get her to eat, like which carrot is crunchiest or squeak while pushing a gnocchi 'mouse' around her plate and it needs to hide in her mouth. When I can't muster up another broccoli tree that needs eating by a monster and am getting pestered for custard I tell her she is showing me she isn't hungry as she hasn't tried and eaten her main. Sometimes she eats nothing, so frustrating but she will live.

I agree that a small snack at a regular time of the day is probably a good idea.

But I think there is a problem in our approach to "hunger" in children. (of course I'm not talking of actual poverty and want here) Often I see, whenever a child says "I'm hungry", a parent immediately offers food, rather than say "well, it'll be dinnertime soon". There's really nothing wrong with a bit of hunger - it sharpens the appetite, makes us really appreciate our food, and is physiologically healthy.

We’re in France where a single fixed snack time for children is the norm - and adults don’t generally snack at all.

Breakfast 7am
Lunch 12 noon - 3 courses, even for very young.
Goûter / snack 4pm - usually biscuits, chocolate, cake
Dinner 7/8 pm

I have to say it’s a shock to the system when we go back to the UK and people seem to graze relentlessly through the day! It’s very frowned upon here.

We follow typical nursery schedule, so breakfast 7:30, snack about 10, lunch 12, tea at 4pm and supper about 6. If we're having dinner together, will have a snack at 4 instead.

They would all snack all day long given the choice, but understand mostly that food appears at set times. There's no discussion about the food unless they bring it up - food is set in front of them and they eat it or not, then it's taken away. Consistency is key, although with flexibility for illness etc.

They should have 3 meals plus two snacks really, or depending on timings maybe 4 small meals, I don't think it's safe to deprive very young children of food. Do you ask them what they want to eat, and make sure they get some favourite meal options thrown in? Appetites and preferences vary for all of us, it's good to mix it up where you can.

The trouble with asking here is that all the little ones are different and what works for one might not work for another. Anyway, I'll describe what we do in case it helps. We tend to like to eat tapas style anyway with a few things out so our toddler can pick what he wants to eat and just serve a little at a time so there isn't much wasted. He eats well generally but he can be all over carby breads for one meal and piling into the meat or veg in the next, we just assume he knows what he needs and it'll all work out as long as we keep putting a variety of foods in front of him. It means we don't have battles and people often comment that he's eating really well because he'll try a little of everything. We do a lot of simple meals like houmous with pitta, olive and tomatoes; also lots of reheats so fresh omelette or pasta dishes get some served and some frozen, then reheated in half toddler portions for a different meal. We don't waste much when he's eating less and the wastage bothers me less anyway when it's a second serving; we're not constantly making fresh, but he gets lots of variety.

What are you offering them for dessert, is it still a healthy option but sweet? For snack or dessert we give him treats like fruit pancake (no sugar), cheese scones, sweet oaty bars, fresh fruit yoghurt or cereal, toast with sweet topping like jam; minimal prep and no wastage if he isn't eating much because it can just be served again. He doesn't campaign for dessert instead of his meal like your kids, I'd probably allow a sweet swap-out for breakfast so they eat a lot early on, but then toast, crumpets or other savoury snack instead the rest of the day.

Snacks of fruit and nothing else for a couple of days - not dried fruit or fruit juice - if they are really hungry they will eat more at proper meal times, but you need to be firm and not give in until you've done about 3 days or so with predictable meal times and it's their new normal again.

Yes humans can live quite happily on snacks, and it's probably what we evolved to do when food was just an arm's reach away in a tree, but with little ones this just translates into someone (mum!) constantly preparing food and it's not fun.

I wouldn't stress too much, making stop doing deserts except for special treats. Snacks can be just as healthy as meals so no point stopping snacks just have set snack times not all day buffets..

OK, I’ve taken all this on board and rather than cut out snacks, I’m going to try a new four small meals a day approach. So roughly:

8.30: Breakfast

12: Lunch

3: Snack (this is when DD1’s preschool finishes)

6: Tea

You’re probably right about the not knowing when pudding is happening being an issue. I had kind of thought by not doing it every meal we were making sure they don’t rely on/expect something sweet after a meal, but I can see now that it’s inconsistent and may make them more fixated. Maybe just fruit/yoghurt with an occasional homemade cake or something at the weekend. This will be good for me too!

I just want to clarify that I don’t force them to finish meals, nor do I force them to eat anything they genuinely don’t like, nor would I reheat anything they’ve tried and not liked. I also don’t use food as a reward, that’s why I’m struggling so much with how to deal with the constant “I’m hungry” after uneaten meals — I don’t want them to go hungry, but supplying snacks and puddings on demand goes against the grain for me because it kind of feels like a “reward” for refusing a healthy homecooked meal, knowing that they’ll get snacks later if they ask.

But fixed smaller mealtimes feels like a good compromise, fingers crossed!

Try to imagine you’re running a small nursery. Healthy meals and snacks are served at regular times. Children eat or don’t eat. Remove the emotion from it. Focus on the social aspect of the meal time and don’t even mention what or how much they’re eating. Any whinging or complaining just respond with a simple ‘please eat whatever you like’ or similar. No cajoling. At the end clear it away without fuss. Snacks would be things like rice cakes, breadsticks, fruit and veg sticks. Easy to prepare.

I’d suggest snacks at 10am and 3pm.

Snack time cant be avoided as schools have dedicated snack times (I'm sure your 4yo preschool will have as well).

So no snacks at home just won't be consistent when the kids are in early education.

I agree with PP that toddlers do need small snacks and that intervals between meals shouldn't be too long.

The battle with "too busy playing to eat" is one I remember well though. it will pass. One day those toddlers will be teenagers complaining that there isn't enough food in the house. In the meantime, would it work to have "puddings" at snack time?

In addition to your list - could you offer something mid-morning too? it doesn't need to be huge - a cube of cheese, a biscuit or some veg sticks would be fine and would reduce the interval between breakfast and lunch.

Snacks mid morning and mid afternoon... snacks at school pickup time. I'm a child of the 60's and this was unheard of. 3 meals a day. Fruit if we asked for it. Yogurt would be "pudding" after a meal or part of breakfast, not eaten at any other time.
Treats happened every now and then, but not daily.

I followed this rule with mine and they grew up healthy and somehow managed to survive. So yes, I'd cut out snacks all together unless they are asking for some fruit. And if they say they are hungry hell yes I'd bring out the left over food from the previous meal. But - that could become a habit as well, so I would be inclined to have a couple of days where they were told that if they didn't eat lunch that would be it until the next meal.

Yes, I could do mid-morning. They aren’t hugely hungry in the morning, it’s more afternoon that’s the issue but I know DD has a morning snack at preschool so that would be consistent.

Definitely not doing puddings as snacks though, I can see exactly how that would go!

I think people in the 60's and 70's did snack, just not in the way that the modern world does. It would be common for adults to stop for elevenses - a biscuit and a cup of coffee - and young children would have a biscuit and maybe some milk or some squash. The difference it it was one very ordinary biscuit and not a giant cookie.

I agree once children are school age that they don't need a snack after school and I don't think meeting your child from school with sweets or crisps does them any favours, but the OP is talking about pre-schoolers with small tummies.