Felt so sad for lady @ supermarket with her latest African money transfer.

[BlueStocking007]

I popped in for a few bits and purchased them at the kiosk, I'm a regular and politely chit chat generally & vice versa.

Lady around 55-60, very well spoken, but did seem slightly tipsy was begging the two other serving staff ( a manager was called) because the lady was wanting to send thousands of pounds to Africa via money transfer. The staff were doing their utmost, to advise that it was very likely this money would be lost, that the gentleman's name had a slight variation ( from the last records) and she had now done this three times. The lady was pleading for them to complete the transaction, the staff did, but said it was the last time

Aibu, to say the staff should have refused.
I totally accept capacity/adult/her decision BUT surely NOBODY who was not vulnerable, lonely ( especially at this time of year) would be sending thousands of pounds to a man in Africa. The supermarket should have carte blanch,with sense and conviction to not do this.
They were clearly & verbally concerned.

It’s sad but it’s her money, so her decision.
They can’t refuse to do a transaction simply because they don’t agree with it.

They did everything they could trying to change her mind. That’s more then a lot of others would have done.

What's the story here? Is she being scammed or something?

Het money het decision. In fairness they tried to talk her out of it but that was all they could do. If she wants to be stupid let her at it.

Het = her obviously

I don’t get the story. Why were they being funny about sending money? I’ve never even been asked by my bank about any transaction in the thousands.

It’s not a bank though nick. It’s western union, or similar, known for scammers.

I watch someone called KitBoga on Twitch occasionally, he pretends to be a vulnerable lady, and you can watch him being ruthlessly scammed by people and getting incredibly aggressive and nasty to manipulate the person. He is in America but a few times when he's pretending to buy gift cards the scammers get very cagey about it (because the stores over there can refuse to sell if they suspect foul play).

It's horrible, my DGM has been scammed over the phone a few times as she feels sorry for "charities". I think they should intervene if they suspect something fishy is going on. Really sad if they've caught her with a scam though.

It's not the staff's responsibility.

People can do what they want with their own money however inadvisable that might be ,I'm not sure what the supermarket could have done to stop her ?

I don’t get how the staff would know though. I wouldn’t think twice, in my shop people are often sending money back home, to relatives etc.

Unfortunately if someone has the capacity to make an unwise decision you cant stop them or it would be a breach of their rights so the staff weren't able to do anything other than advise her not to do it. I work in mental health and get vulnerable patients who want to give away or spend large amounts of money in ways you would generally think unwise and feel obliged to prevent but if they are able to understand the decision they are making and its consequences, retain the information, weigh it up and communicate their decision they are deemed to have capacity to make that decision and you cant stop them. It's hard to sit by and let someone give away a large amount of money like that but at the end of the day, you cant stop someone from doing something just because you dont agree with it.

I understand your concern, we have this all the time at work and it's so frustrating but everyone is entitled to make a bad decision if they're able to.

It's sad but it's her money to spend how she likes, and the supermarket staff don't have authority over her and aren't in that type of safeguarding position. It would be like them stopping her from buying alcohol or junk food because it's bad for her and a waste of money.

for those who don't understand the scenario, I think the customer is a regular, well known to the staff, and it is obvious from what she says that it is a kind of romance scam, or possibly money to release winnings/inheritance etc.
all these type of things have been going on at least 50 yrs, much easier now with internet.
it seems the most vulnerable are the least amenable to being warned. I knew a lady who was literally inundated with papers all over her house re supposed lotteries etc, needing fees to release funds. I worked in a sector that had a legal regulatory role, tried to explain to her, and about if you replied to one of them your details got sold to others to put on the suckers' lists. otherwise highly intelligent, ex wrens, she wouldn't hear of it. said she wouldn't like to be like me, suspicious of everybody, that's what her mother was like....
it was quite frustrating, energy-sapping. and I was tying to support my DP at the time, in his final illness, which she didn't understand either, got annoyed when I said I couldn't come over as I was looking after him. bring him with you she said. it was awful, he was too ill to go anywhere, I tried to hint, couldn't bring myself to say that out loud. she got very huffy and rang off. I'm crying now, took the call in this very room, years ago now, but

How sad. I wonder what the story is. I wonder if the person receiving the money is telling her he/she never got said money and to re-send with a different spelling, thus tripling the amount they would've received otherwise? Yikes.

I worked in a bank for years and if the person sending the money was able to make that decision and there was no reason to suspect money laundering there isn't really a lot you can do.

It’s a difficult one, but the fact is if the person is of sound mind and not being coerced in any way then I imagine they have no choice but to fulfill the request. It would be a slippery slope for the staff to intervene and refuse to process certain transactions. Additionally they don’t really know if it’s not legitimate so it’s not their place to say otherwise.

Poor lady🙁! I guess though the staff couldn’t ultimately refuse. Very tough call, but she is responsible for her own decisions I guess. They did express their reservations and try to dissuade her at the end of the day the staff had no choice. I would feel sad for the lady too.

I do wish people would read tft! there's only 12 messages !
I'm quite quite sure the banks on the high street have a system to query/investigate further for an unusual amount being paid to an African man in Africa. Their records would show this is 3 times ( with the similar name) and I'm sure they would just refuse?
I think, she may have even been convinced to use a local shop, as they are less stringent ( quite clearly)
When the staff where saying, "are you sure" " you know you won't get this back" she acknowledged the fact, but still agreed.
@Honeybee85, you are absolutely right. I have over 20 years of work within mental health, varying degrees, including a forensic hospital. I do know the frustrations re capacity.
She completely accepted the staff were right, but sent it anyway.

It would take somebody living under a rock, to not have any awareness of the millions of scammers from Africa in particular, confessing their love, adoration & desperation to fly over to the UK to meet vulnerable women they met online, if only they had the fare & when that was sent, it would be their mother in desperate need of an emergency lifesaving operation and then etc etc

I've heard it squillions of times, just never witnessed it, it was just a very sad display of a vulnerable person. I do accept staff are obliged. I could not have actioned it.

Could the staff not call some hotline - Action Fraud (and on to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau)?

It seems completely ridiculous that the transfer office has no recourse to an outside agency. They have to see this sort of thing all the time.

I believe Western Union can flag transactions (not sure if it's Western union in this case though).

I totally accept capacity/adult/her decision BUT surely NOBODY who was not vulnerable, lonely ( especially at this time of year) would be sending thousands of pounds to a man in Africa.

There will be vast numbers of people sending money to men in Africa this Christmas. Dads, brothers, husbands, sons, friends. I've had money wired to me in Africa FGS. And yes, in this case it sounds like a scam. But Western Union and their ilk do send masses of money to the Caribbean and Africa from British people and people in Britain every year. Without incident.

I dont think it's obvious that it's a scam of any kind. It's definitely a possibility but as nor the staff or OP know this lady personally you cant say for sure that she isnt simply sending money to a loved one or old friend. What's to say she didn't live in Africa herself at some point and knows this individual personally? As an example I work with agency nurses who have moved here from south Africa, fell in love and started a family here but send money to family still in Africa because they earna lot more here and their families rely on them for financial support.

I'm not saying that this is the case but it does make me sad that nowadays an older lady sending money to someone in Africa is instantly seen as a scam to be stopped. People are far too quick to judge without knowing the whole story. It may well be a scam but there is no proof of this, nor of the potential vulnerability of this woman so nor you or the staff would have any right to step in and prevent her from sending the money.
Capacity is assessed for each decision. It cannot be done in advance to make an overall statement as to whether the woman does or does not have capacity for all future decisions.

If you or the staff genuinely feel she is at risk of being scammed or taken advantage of the best think to do is contact the local councils safeguarding team and raise a concern with them and they will be able to look into it. Dont forget, it is Christmas/New Year. She may be sending a large amount of money because it is easier, faster and cheaper than buying gifts and having them sent to Africa.

I'm not sure I could just watch this happen without wanting to investigate further to find out whats going on.

Its the kind of story that if it got out might tighten the laws. What happened before the age of the internet? Did we have international financial scamming?

As @MrsTerryPratchett says there are loads of people who send money to Africa and Western Union is a perfectly legitimate way of doing it. I have sent money to friends and ex co-workers to help with their (legitimate) social businesses.

Jeez, there's a lot of negative generalisation about African men here! There is a shop near to where I live where you can use Western Union. Money is being sent continually to all parts of the world. It doesn't make it a scam!

An African man in Africa. Wow.

I would imagine the shop sees this all the time. If they stopped everyone who could possibly being scammed they would probably be doing it all the time. And of course as this lady is assumed to have capacity it is her choice to make an unwise decision. It is very sad of course if it is a scam.