Felt so sad for lady @ supermarket with her latest African money transfer.

[BlueStocking007]

I popped in for a few bits and purchased them at the kiosk, I'm a regular and politely chit chat generally & vice versa.

Lady around 55-60, very well spoken, but did seem slightly tipsy was begging the two other serving staff ( a manager was called) because the lady was wanting to send thousands of pounds to Africa via money transfer. The staff were doing their utmost, to advise that it was very likely this money would be lost, that the gentleman's name had a slight variation ( from the last records) and she had now done this three times. The lady was pleading for them to complete the transaction, the staff did, but said it was the last time

Aibu, to say the staff should have refused.
I totally accept capacity/adult/her decision BUT surely NOBODY who was not vulnerable, lonely ( especially at this time of year) would be sending thousands of pounds to a man in Africa. The supermarket should have carte blanch,with sense and conviction to not do this.
They were clearly & verbally concerned.

I see what you're getting at OP. I had a friend scammed like this some time ago, he was a Christian and very kind, but a young man (of a different country and nationality) in the city I was living in had contacted him, and gave him a story about how he was fleeing for his life, had to save his family, etc etc. As I was in the same city and country, he asked me to meet this man and hand over money. As soon as I met him I knew it was a scam, and was soon proved right, but friend would not listen ... it's sad but an adult person usually won't take advice in cases like this. If you knew this woman's family or friends you could approach them if you are concerned. If she were my relative I would want to know, even if it turned out to be nothing sinister.

About a year ago I had a spate of many, many handsome military personnel and veterans from the American Mid-West sending me friend requests on FB. They arrived weekly for several months. I deleted them as they arrived and the stream eventually dried up. I was savvy and confident enough to realise that all those requests probably came from one organisation, possibly even one laptop and the intent was to build an online friendship into romance and then ask me for cash. However if my circumstances were different, if I was lonely or vulnerable I might have accepted those requests and got sucked in.

Many of these scammers are highly trained and very very good at what they do. It’s a multi-million dollar industry. I’m glad that banks and money transfer organisations are doing what they can to protect people.

As I was in the same city and country, he asked me to meet this man and hand over money

I think that was bloody awful of your friend to expect you to meet a strange man you'd never met (and he had never met either) to hand over money. WTF? He could have been putting you at great risk of harm. You could have been attacked if you said no to handing over the money.

"I find it absolutely bizarre that the same thread, has been read completely differently by so many.."

Not bizarre. It simply shows there are different ways of interpreting what you witnessed, and you need to at least entertain the possibility that your personal interpretation of the facts might not be the correct one.

For years there were advanced fee frauds coming out of Nigeria so suspicion about a potentially vulnerable person making repeated payments to Africa is not unreasonable.

One of DH’s friends, who has MH issues, got stung by a fraud from The Ivory Coast. DH managed to get details of the second transfer before it was made for me to look at (I work in Financial Services) and it was fairly convincing. We stopped any more money going but he had already lost over £1000. DH and his friend are North African with obviously Arabic names. I think they were targeting possible French speakers in that case.

People sit in Internet cafes pumping out dozens of these emails. Even a hit rate of 1% is worth the effort.

Thing is, what is being "vulnerable" and what is being "stupid"?

Nigeria has a law 814 I think attempting to stop fraud, which is known as 814 fraud. I worked in a tax have which attracted lots of this sort of crime. Quite a while ago there was a man trying to open account with a $20 million cheque drawn on Bank of Nigeria, he was getting upset when he was refused at all the banks, the staff were ringing their friends and falling bout with laughter, unkind but true.

You've raised a good point in my opinion. Is it all about GDPR these days? Are there no other obligations staff might have? whoever uploaded those police officers' addresses on to the internet is going to quite rightly get it in the neck but staff who stand before a tipsy scammed conned woman and go right ahead and press send, they'll have nothing wrong. I know. I get it.

IMO yanbu OP, I would have tried to ''fuck it up'' to give her time to see his true colours

It IS sad.

Write to the head office of the supermarket? They may want to consider their position and offer further training to staff?

I used to work in a pay day lender/pawn broker and this lady would NOT have been allowed to make the transfer. Unfortunately, it’s now shut. Due, i think in some part, to a media created impression of being unethical.

Well at least we know the OP is able to copy and paste. .

What happened before the age of the internet
Before tinternet arrived, a person would scam you in the home. Maybe a roof repair, new kitchen, gardening. They would accompany the (usually elderly) scammee to the bank to withdraw a stupidly large amount of money for the problem. Like 6 grand for clearing a garden, 12k to fix a hole in the roof (that didnt even exist). Then the scammer would sell the address on to other dodgy people.
Often the scammee had to move to avoid more scams. Sometimes there would be no one to catch it so scammees ended up with nothing left at all.

"An African man in Africa"

OP - your assumption that this means it's dodgy is bordering on racist.

I don’t know why posters find scamming so hard to believe. Is it because it’s happening to likely Tory voting middle-aged boomers? It’s very easy to get dragged into these scams, and it’s an absolute truth that many emanate from Africa, not all but many. Posters protesting “don’t paint my uncle in Liberia with the same brush” should be angry with the other uncles in Liberia for creating this situation.

Scammers call landlines of people who’s numbers used to be in phone books, not mobiles with call screening. They purport to be with banks or BT which were businesses you could trust. They know enough to be convincing and then they start the confidence tricking. Once they’ve hooked the victim they’re often too embarrassed, anxious or distressed to back out or tell someone that could help them.

I’m 51 and answered DM’s landline recently to a BT scammer and played along. They were very convincing, I can absolutely see how they hook people who aren’t as sophisticated in word play. They are absolute scum. My sister and I give DM monthly drills on who to look out for and never ever to give her details away.

@BlueStocking007

How sure are you that what you witnessed was a fraud?

100% ? 99%? 90%? 80%?

Did you report it to the police, make a witness statement, and obtain a crime reference?

OP, I'm with you on this. The hysteria and virtue signalling on this thread is beyond sane.

I’m 51 and answered DM’s landline recently to a BT scammer and played along.

It's fun to do this sometimes. Every now and then I'll have a giggle if I've got time to kill.

"Good day to you sir, I'm from Windows and we have noticed a problem in your computer.."

Result!! Time to kill, let's play along. Sad? Undoubtedly, but they do get irate on the other end sometimes.

You didn't KNOW IT WAS A SCAM.

You SUSPECTED IT WAS A SCAM.

You were probably right but people are allowed to give their money away if that's what they want to do.

This happened to a relative of mine. After he'd been conned out of thousands the supermarket staff told the manager who took my relative into his office and managed to get the number of his daughter out of him. They rang her and she went to get him. Thank goodness for the staff.

NB re getting victims’ numbers from phone books, etc., I’m sure there are other ways. I’m quite convinced that our elderly neighbour was targeted because of her fondness for Wordsearch competitions - where you phone in all your details at £££ per minute.

She has never used the internet. Well before the lottery scam bastards got their claws into her, she told me that her husband was cross with her because of how much money she was spending on them.

These scamster bastards have ‘Suckers’ Lists’ of the particularly vulnerable or potentially susceptible. Lists of such people are sold or passed on to people/organisations that are not necessarily criminal but may very well be.

Yes Getting I meant that these are people who were used to having their numbers in books. Possibly a more simple, open and honest society. Now, as you say their details are simply flogged to whoever will pay, but they often don’t realise that.

Scans are not new. And you can scream racist all you like, but it is fact. In the 80’s banks in London would not open accounts for Nigerian students because they were running cheque book fraud. I’ve seen many cheques drawn on the Inland Revenue’s account that had the payer name overwritten with a Nigerian name when you could do that using a key stroke typewriter. Again, Nigeria is of course not the only nation that produces fraudsters. Perhaps the volume of people that do engage in it from that particular country is what makes it so easy to spot.

Also: people who have been scammed find it really hard to admit that they’ve been scammed. That’s why so many people double down when the scam is laid out.

There’s really no need to be hostile or rude OP. When you post on AIBU there will be a range of viewpoints, it’s possible to have a civilised debate/discussion without using caps and getting personal.

For years there were advanced fee frauds coming out of Nigeria so suspicion about a potentially vulnerable person making repeated payments to Africa is not unreasonable

True enough - and the country is said to top the list for "romance scams" too: nms.kcl.ac.uk/guillermo.suarez-tangil/papers/2018conpro-geoscammy.pdf

That said, most of those who've called me for the "your computer has a virus" scam have had heavy south asian accents - though funnily enough they insist their names are George or John - and this site says that a very large source of scams is Mexico: www.shiprocket.in/blog/ecommerce-online-scamming-fraudsters-countries/

So while the source appears to vary by type of scam, what they seem to have in common is that most come from from less developed nations

"Ummm... again I’m curious to know what country she was sending the money to?"

OP is unlikely to know that really isn't she? If the staff told her it was an African country, that'll be all she knows.

"Did you report it to the police, make a witness statement, and obtain a crime reference?"

I expect she carried on with her shopping, as most of us would. It's only on mn that you can't be concerned about something without being sarcastically berated for not single-handedly taking responsibility for a situation.

OP, some of the responses on here are insane. You were there. If you say she'd been drinking, she'd been drinking. If you say it had every appearance of being a scam then I believe that too.

All the pp saying 'oh but I send money to my ageing aunt in Africa all the time and would be furious if someone stopped me' : that isn't really the case here is it? When this woman was asked where she was sending her money it wasn't her ageing aunt, old school friend or cousin. It was someone she'd never met, whose only contact was to ask her to send money.

I can see why an African man from Africa can sound uncomfortable. Yes, Nigerian scammers have been around for ages and are usually fairly obvious. For what it's worth, they're becoming incredibly smart with some of them now living in the west as well as using internet numbers. Sure you wouldn't fall for a number in "Africa" but many will consider someone in the US to be genuine.
Now completely understand why money ent to an uncle could not be received. Someone probably thought me vulnerable and ticked the box.