Felt so sad for lady @ supermarket with her latest African money transfer.

[BlueStocking007]

I popped in for a few bits and purchased them at the kiosk, I'm a regular and politely chit chat generally & vice versa.

Lady around 55-60, very well spoken, but did seem slightly tipsy was begging the two other serving staff ( a manager was called) because the lady was wanting to send thousands of pounds to Africa via money transfer. The staff were doing their utmost, to advise that it was very likely this money would be lost, that the gentleman's name had a slight variation ( from the last records) and she had now done this three times. The lady was pleading for them to complete the transaction, the staff did, but said it was the last time

Aibu, to say the staff should have refused.
I totally accept capacity/adult/her decision BUT surely NOBODY who was not vulnerable, lonely ( especially at this time of year) would be sending thousands of pounds to a man in Africa. The supermarket should have carte blanch,with sense and conviction to not do this.
They were clearly & verbally concerned.

DH transferred some money to me recently. After he had done this we had a change of plan and I transferred £2000 back. Literally within 10 seconds of me clicking on transfer, the phone rang - it was my bank, checking I wasn't being scammed, no one was coercing me or pressuring me. I was impressed.

"What would be the point of telling lies"?

People do it all the time on this board, OP.

(On another note please do look up the correct meaning of the adjective 'belligerent')

I think you are right. The staff were worried, and should contact a local community policeman about it.
They put financial responsibilities into stores, without adequate training and fail safes for staff and customers.
Inadequate management.

This lady needs help, she sounds like an exploited elder.

That is so sad and I would feel as you do.

Ummm... again I’m curious to know what country she was sending the money to?

Love that old AJP is on the thread 😀

@Shesalittlemadam. In no way an expert ( where did you read this?) but years of experience in mental health, led me to believe she was vulnerable.

It was very awkward & uncomfortable and I did ask staff helping me, is she okay etc, which is when I got an update. She was categorically advised firstly and after stipulating this was the very last time, they would do it.
It absolutely wasn't for me to further embarrass her, question her further, question the staff, or manager on their decision, but I would not have done it.
I discussed it some more at home and then as the night progressed bothered me more.

I asked mn if it was unreasonable, if concern was there and it was, whether the staff working at the supermarket should have made that decision. Banks do make this decision. I claimed I wouldn't have done it and this is why I posted for other views.

not sure why you feel this warrants goady snipes from behind a keyboard...

As per my pp, the law takes the view that unless somebody has been officially deemed to lack capacity, they are free to throw their money away as they wish, even if its pretty obvious that some ruthless criminal is the recipient.

It doesn’t have to be anyone elderly or apparently vulnerable, either. On a TV prog about scams there was an apparently perfectly intelligent woman, only in her 40s, who not only sent all her savings to some scam ‘lover’, but also took out a bank loan to send to him.

The bank asked what the loan was for, she actually told them, and they still granted it. In such a case - a bank loan - I do think they’d have been perfectly justified in refusing it.

Unfortunately communications in 2019 have enable much more fraud from all over the world. It started with begging letters from Nigeria, we used to get them at work. Then moved into the Prince so and so who needed to access you account to move millions. Now sadly with OLD people all over are trying to get money from naive westerners, I have read of relations begging people not to send money for operations, air fares, etc.

Because of fraud the banks query larger payments, this has now lead to the scammers using other payment methods. Sadly many people get stung and many won’t tell anyone as they feel stupid.

I don’t think there is much that outsiders can do

I find it absolutely bizarre that the same thread, has been read completely differently by so many & responded to in some instances like another thread's been read! some with no reference to any additional info, some completely random responses, some make no sense whatsoever, some make very coherent, thought out responses and then you get the standard aibu gang making argumentative & goady snipes.

Welcome to MN.

Some posters on here would put the Dalai lama into a rage.

All the posters saying they'd be so annoyed about being stopped sending money to their relatives and his it might not be a scam; are your relatives changing their name slightly every time? I mean FFS.

And I just knew there'd have to be some accusation of racism, in spite if the fact that the majority of online scams can be traced to (usually West) African countries.

In the tiny supermarket where I work we have notices telling us to watch out for people who've been told to pay their bills in gift cards, or anyone who seems vulnerable buying lots of gift cards in particular.

Unfortunately all we can do is warn them of scams. It's not up to us to police their spending.

@KaptainKaveman

belligerent
/bəˈlɪdʒ(ə)r(ə)nt/
adjective
adjective: belligerent
hostile and aggressive.
antagonistic,confrontational, argumentative, quarrelsome,ill-tempered. { number of resources} please feel free to swop according to your preference.

noted your further belligerence.

irascible

captious

spoiling for a fight
stroppy

bolshie

scrappy

oppugnant

My mother is elderly, full mental capacity. Has banked with the same bank for her whole life. She wanted to make a transfer to a family member (living in UK, bank in UK) and her bank said no.
Recently as a family we’ve had several meetings with Drs/ Social Workers/ Solicitors etc etc due to my mum’s husband being ill.
All of these people have agreed that my mum is of sound mind.
Her own bank obviously know different to these experts and have decreed that someone should not have access to their own money.

Funny because my own bank have never stopped me making a transaction. The only difference being our ages.
Perhaps we should treat everyone over pension age as being incapable of knowing what they would like to do with their own cash.

If this was a scam I’m very impressed that the staff went to so much trouble to try and prevent it. If it wasn’t a scam and it was being sent to a family member or legitimate debtor or a charity then there’s no harm done because the woman was determined to make her own decision so the money did get sent eventually.

Any time I send a immediate payment from my online bank I get a message reminding me to check the payee is legitimate and to reconsider it if I don’t know the person or I am being put under pressure to make that payment. That can be frustrating when I’m sending £60 or so to the gardener for the umpteenth time that year or reimbursing a friend for the theatre ticket they paid for but if that warning occasionally makes someone think and stops them being ripped off it’s worth it.

Oh and op's question was is she BU to be sad for this lady, not really whether the woman should've been stopped.
And she is NBU so the poll results are bizarre.

Muddyfields, and others who have mentioned police, social services etc., please understand that unless the person has been officially deemed to lack capacity, and unless the person wishes it, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do.

This is why this sort of situation is often so frustrating for friends or relatives who know very well that the person is being scammed, but are powerless to stop it.

The scamsters can be very cunningly clever. In our neighbour’s case they had built up a very close and cosy relationship with her over the phone. I read afterwards that they will typically tell their victims (in cases such as this ‘lottery win’ not to tell their friends or relatives, since they will be jealous and try to stop them getting the money.,

There is a website all about this sort of thing called Think Jessica. It makes for extremely sobering reading.

EVERYBODY KNEW IT WAS A SCAM.HENCE ME ASKING WHY THEY WENT AHEAD.

No, you can make a guess that it was a scam, but you don't know for sure.

You sound a bit unhinged OP.

And I just knew there'd have to be some accusation of racism, in spite if the fact that the majority of online scams can be traced to (usually West) African countries.

I'd be accused of being racist every time I get a phone call from a call centre and the operator is of a specific nationality and immediately question its legitimacy. To be fair I question anything, but these get the radar going more intensely.

Well, if that makes me racist, then so be it, I can live with that.

I'd be very concerned for the lady too. The staff were right to try to caution her that the money would be lost. I'm sure both they and OP can spot the difference between someone sending money to family back home and a very likely fraud. Its not really racial stereotyping when the templates of such scams are so well known. It is still surprising that people get caught out when there has been so much publicity about it. My DF 90 lives in fear of scammers.

I've had quite a few instances of likely scammers -

• on OLD where an improbably handsome GI in the frontline of some war was wanting to get straight onto messaging on WhatsApp and was falling in love with me after one short message
• a letter saying I was the sole beneficiary of a will from someone in China and needing my bank account details (I have a very common surname and my Dad got the exact same letter)
• an email from my Chairman saying he was abroad and had his bank cards stolen - one of our (older lady) trustees wanted to send him money and we had to stop her. He was in fact at home mowing the lawn.
• a handwritten letter from a schoolgirl in Africa needing donations for the cost of her education and her dying Mum (this was out of the blue and not via any known charity)
• and another from Africa saying I had won some money and asking for bank details (in fact I think I've had more than one of those)

You think that people would be aware by now. My own bank is very careful to double check any larger transfers or payments re fraud or being pressured to pay. I'm glad of it.

People are acknowledging the possibility it ,s a scam Op but no amount of handwriging and tying yourself n knots about it could have prevented it ,people are allowed to do what they like with their own money even if others suspect they are being scammed ,just watch Cat fish!

Yes they could have stopped the transaction. If the amount is in the thousands as OP said, then they should really be asking for the ID of the person in Africa as well as the ID of the sender.
The country could well be on the list of 'dodgy' countries that are well known for money laundering in which case they should be being extra careful. If they have any reason to suspect anything 'off', they should be reporting it to the NCA.

EVERYBODY KNEW IT WAS A SCAM.HENCE ME ASKING WHY THEY WENT AHEAD.

No idea why you felt the need to start shouting.
How do you know it was a scam? Because the people at the supermarket told you it was? Because you made an assumption based on the conversation you overheard while waiting in the queue?

I think it was wrong of the staff to discuss what happened with you after the lady had gone. You say they gave you an "update". That's a breach of privacy.
I think the supermarket could have refused to carry out the transaction if they really thought it was to a scammer. After all, they've said they won't do it the next time. I don't know what the rules are about this but I once had a transaction refused by a bank because I couldn't give a street name for a business in another country but there was no street name (very small village).

If it's still bothering you, you could write a letter to the supermarket concerned asking them to look into their procedures regarding things like this.

The staff were worried, and should contact a local community policeman about it

Sorry, a what

From my experience ba ks are diligent about potential scams. I had a tax bill to pay and had great difficulty in getting my bank to pay it because they said it was unusual and a common scam. Yes, it was unusual because I had never paid cgt before but it was definitely not a scam!!

I wouldnt have done the transfer, should i have lied and said there was a system fault to stall. If this was my mother id be fuming at someone aiding an obvious fraud, yes they tried to stop her but still proceeded with the transaction knowing it was most likely fraudulent...