Cyprus is no longer a safe place for (young, single) women to holiday?

[Kraai]

The teen went back to her ONS's room for consensual sex. When there, 11 of his mates burst in and filmed while three of them then raped her. She went to the police and reported it. They were detained. They said it was consensual and was "with love" (I kid you not!). She was interviewed at length with no legal representation and the police decided she was lying. She was then charged with the crime of making up a crime and has been unable to come home since the summer. The guys were all allowed to return to Israel where some of them have since said things indicating she wasn't lying at all and I'm pretty sure the video was shared (from memory, which may be wrong). She's had psychological evaluation saying she's suffering badly from PTSD.

It's worth noting that the Cyprus is a very popular destination for young Israelis to let off steam before they start national service and there's a strong political tie between the two.

So, AIBU to say that Cyprus is no longer a safe destination for young woman? If the worst happens to you and you report it and the police think you're not a credible witness, YOU will end up in jail. Knowing how traumatic reporting something like a stolen wallet in a foreign police station can be, the idea that a woman would be interviewed without legal representation in a state of severe distress, however that manifests, and then not believed and charged means that men have been given free rein to rape in Cyprus. Especially if it's in a potential "grey zone".

https://www.bbc.com/news/videoandd_audio/headlines/50944483/cyprus-rape-claim-case-it-s-a-very-worrying-conviction

[Italiangreyhound]

I don't know exactly what happened in this case. However, my understanding is she claimed to be raped but there was not a rape trial. That in itself is a travesty of justice.

That travesty of justice to me suggests Cypress won't treat women who claim to be victims of rape fairly. That makes it not safe. I hope that will make those on power in Cypress think about their legal system. I don't think womem should go on holiday where they do not feel safe.

[Emeraldshamrock]

I hear you too Panic.
After the recent rape trial rugby and lack of evidence to prosecute in many cases I'd seriously be in two minds to report it if it happened to me.
Rape victims are often treated as a criminal scouring over their personal life.

[Italiangreyhound]

PanicAndRun I am so sorry to read your story.

[RufusthebewiIderedreindeer]

panic

[Emeraldshamrock]

@FairytaleofButlins wtf is up with you. Are you protecting all men or projecting?
Men rape. They rape women they rape men and some of them rape children. NAMALT of course though I'd say 98% of sexual assaults are carried out by men.

[OmniversalsTapdancingTadpole]

Male violence needs to be addressed on a global scale.

I believe her, poor woman.

And i wish her strength, freedom, justice and retribution. The police and the men involved need to be named, shamed and shunned by all.

Sue Lloyd-Roberts was right there is a war on women.

[PanicAndRun]

Thank you all . I actually haven't put that much detail because it feels dunno... somehow manipulative.


I think sentencing the woman is what's so shocking and scary about this case. Not going to trial, them being found not guilty and so on would be disgusting but not shocking. We've seen it happen across the world and in the UK many ,many times. We're "used" to that. But to make such a travesty of justice, to imprison the victim,to basically say to the whole world "women make sure you're not raped,and if you are do not even dare complain because you'll be the one in jail"? Such callousness and disregard for women as human beings is shocking and scary.

[Italiangreyhound]

PanicAndRun One thing stood out for me especially, the fact yoir friend was told not to intervene or she would be involved. It reminded me of the film with Jodid Foster, The Accused. It is based on a real case of gamf rape in a bar in the USA. The victim was able to prosecute members of the bar who egged on the rapists.

[Kraai]

@NoPasaran "It's worth noting that the Cyprus is a very popular destination for young Israelis to let off steam before they start national service and there's a strong political tie between the two."

That's a lovely bit of casual anti Semitism there, OP. FFS.

Hmm. Well I'd have said the same if they were from France before national service (which I know they don't do there anymore), or Egypt (where there is military service) - although I'm not aware of military links between either of those countries and Cyprus anyway. They come from a country, their religion isn't the issue, the nationality is though in this context. The Cypriot tourist market and military links are important for Israel - from my understanding. Being Jewish (or any other religion) is irrelevant here. Unless you're claiming that these boys somehow represent Judaism, which I'd vehemently argue they don't.

And before calling someone anti Semitic, it's always good to know what their own religion is btw!

[Italiangreyhound]

Thank you FairyLightsAreMyCrack I'll contribute.

[FairytaleofButlins]

For the people on here who are not victim blaming arseholes

do you mean people who need actual facts before feeling able to judge a situation? Interesting impartial point of view you have.

No one has even bothered mentioning the fact that an official judgement has been made, because some people use critical thinking...

[MissEliza]

@Kraai brilliant post. Well done for dealing with people who are trying to distract from the main issue- that poor woman. She's going through hell.
I've never been to Cyprus but what I heard from friends who did go put me off. I remember their main concern was the young British squaddies preying on naive drunken girls.

[Sparklesocks]

Fairytale that’s because courts don’t always get it right, especially with rape cases. It’s woefully naive to think justice is always served.

[kirinm]

@fairytaleofbutlins - have you read anything that cites the judgment (not judgement)? Have you read how the Judge refused to consider any evidence about the possible rape? That the girl was not allowed to read out the "statement" she had given when she brought up the fact that it was written in poor English - to demonstrate that she hadn't actually written it? All of these facts which are included in the judgment, ought to allow you to form some sort of opinion. Not necessarily about whether the girl was telling the truth or not (I believe her) but that the treatment she has received is not fair and reasonable. - It'll form the basis of her appeal.

[Kraai]

Newdilemma
I'm focussing one the experience of the victim because it's important. The people arguing that young women should still go and let loose there should think about how this could be done safely. My point that they should consent to anything in their own rooms, by the fact they're there is ridiculous, but it's essentially the set up now. If a girl goes to the guy's room she's co dented to sex with whoever else feels like using her body. She can reduce the number of men who have access by going to her own room..but it's still utterly ridiculous.

And if they don't think this is acceptable, then how do they suggest that young women be free to have sex with whoever they choose on holiday, but mitigate the risk of being raped?!

My point is it's a) ridiculous and b) impossible now (maybe was before too but the legal situation has been brought to light to people like me now).

[Mintjulia]

Well, for me, Cyprus and Israel are both off the holiday list permanently. It’s the only way I can show support for the poor girl and contempt for their “justice”.

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Evening everyone - we've been getting a high number of reports about this thread and have already made several deletions. Clearly it's a really important discussion and we don't wish to see it derailed by posts which break our Talk Guidelines. This includes victim blaming and perpetuation of rape myths as well as posts which appear influenced by antisemitic canards.

Thanks to those who reported - please do let us know if you see anything else which is concerning.

[PanicAndRun]

The "boys" celebrated,said they regret nothing, were welcomed home with open arms by family,friend and supporters and said they plan to sue the 19 yo to the tune of 60,000 euros.

Poor poor lambs,definitely broken and suffering from the allegations. How will they ever cope?

[FairytaleofButlins]

because courts don’t always get it right, especially with rape cases. It’s woefully naive to think justice is always served.

it's not naive to think that courts are still a better option than a mob lynching.

The theory of the "wisdom of the crowd" might even have a point, but not when it's on a forum like MN where many posters have a irrational hatred of the male gender.
I am not even started on the antisemitism seen on this thread.

[Kraai]

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet are there MN rules as to what is considered anti-Semitic?

Criticising a government, referring to a government by the name of the citizens (ie the Americans, the Germans - a standard way of discussing a government) and even mentioning Israel have all been slated as anti-Semitic on this thread. It's quite an accusation to call someone anti-Semitic so it would be helpful to know what this site considers acceptable so we know what we can say and others can also know where the line is.

Personally I could barely be further from being anti-Semitic if I tried and it's quite upsetting to be accused of this, especially in a conversation that has no reference to ethnicity or religion.

[happyandsingle]

I will never visit Cyprus and I hope other british holidaymakers follow suit.

[FairyLightsAreMyCrack]

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet Why have you deleted my post in which I linked to an official fundraiser set up by the rape victims family?

Is it because I used the word 'arseholes'? Or because you object to an official fundraiser?

[happyandsingle]

Sadly men are becoming a danger to women all over the world.It seems when they get in groups there is a pack mentality and it's quite scary.
I think more and more men hate women or see them as just bodies to be abused.
I think we as women need to look how we are bringing up sons and men need to be a good role model for sons not like all these feckless dads you read about who breed and then abandon their kids.

[LilyMumsnet]

[quote FairyLightsAreMyCrack]@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet Why have you deleted my post in which I linked to an official fundraiser set up by the rape victims family?

Is it because I used the word 'arseholes'? Or because you object to an official fundraiser? [/quote]

Hello,

We don't allow any links to gofundme pages or crowdfunders and this is a blanket policy across the site.