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AIBU?

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Original poster

Cyprus is no longer a safe place for (young, single) women to holiday?

725 replies

Kraai · 30/12/2019 11:57

The teen went back to her ONS's room for consensual sex. When there, 11 of his mates burst in and filmed while three of them then raped her. She went to the police and reported it. They were detained. They said it was consensual and was "with love" (I kid you not!). She was interviewed at length with no legal representation and the police decided she was lying. She was then charged with the crime of making up a crime and has been unable to come home since the summer. The guys were all allowed to return to Israel where some of them have since said things indicating she wasn't lying at all and I'm pretty sure the video was shared (from memory, which may be wrong). She's had psychological evaluation saying she's suffering badly from PTSD.

It's worth noting that the Cyprus is a very popular destination for young Israelis to let off steam before they start national service and there's a strong political tie between the two.

So, AIBU to say that Cyprus is no longer a safe destination for young woman? If the worst happens to you and you report it and the police think you're not a credible witness, YOU will end up in jail. Knowing how traumatic reporting something like a stolen wallet in a foreign police station can be, the idea that a woman would be interviewed without legal representation in a state of severe distress, however that manifests, and then not believed and charged means that men have been given free rein to rape in Cyprus. Especially if it's in a potential "grey zone".

https://www.bbc.com/news/videoandd_audio/headlines/50944483/cyprus-rape-claim-case-it-s-a-very-worrying-conviction

OP posts:
happycamper11 · 30/12/2019 13:50

Ayia Napa was never safe. It has always been the most hardcore of the ClubMed Booze&Sex sewers.

Nonsense- the bar strip is a very small part of the town and the British tourists come for about 3-4 weeks of the season and it's nowhere near as bad as say Kavos or Magaluf. The Russians and Swedish use it very much as a family resort.

Anon7728 · 30/12/2019 13:51

This has happened in other countries - including USA a few years back.

I would still go to Cyprus - I also have friends on both sides of the island who live there with their families.

I have travelled extensively, alone, as has my best friend and sister ( not all together) and nothing has ever happened to any of us I am glad to say.
I think you need to be really careful when travelling and realise that every country has its own laws and customs and you cannot behave as you would in the UK.

There have been many cases here of rape being reported and it not investigated properly - happened to a friend of mine about 20 years ago when she was almost raped by a mini cab driver outside her house one night - luckily he mother saw what was happening and went out with a walking stick ready to bash the guy up, when the police arrived they didn’t really do much and the guy was never caught even though they had his license plate and cab firm phone number!!

I am afraid that this is an awful story and I feel for the girl, but the only way to stop this is for women to stand up and fight - something which is near impossible in some patriarchal countries.

Ladies - when holidaying / travelling, remember that customs are different and one night stands can be viewed as a woman being easy - sometimes even a prostitute - is it really worth it??!!

Devereux1 · 30/12/2019 13:52

DishingOutDone
So sad to see some posters piously defend the attackers.

You don't know they were attackers. So nobody here can be accused of defending people who legally do not exist in this case. So how can it be sad?

She was found guilty, not them. The ruling may well be a travesty of justice. It may not be. Have you seen the evidence Dishing?

IdblowJonSnow · 30/12/2019 13:55

Did someone on this thread actually suggest that if you agree to go back with someone you consent to anything that might follow?!! SadAngry
What is the actual logic there then?
How about men just dont abuse women? We are allowed to enjoy sex without being punished for it surely?
Wow, you'd never believe we are about to enter 2020. Crawl back under your medieval rock.

FairytaleofButlins · 30/12/2019 13:57

So sad to see some posters piously defend the attackers.

i find it more sad - even if not surprising - that people make a judgement when they have no fact, no real knowledge and just read bits from the papers!

Keyboard warriors at their best.

I would feel safer anywhere that actually investigate and only bring reasonable cases to court.

Countries where a rape victim will be charged for her intercourse with her rapist? Not so much. But that's not the case here.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 30/12/2019 13:58

The fucking victim blaming on here.

AngelsSins · 30/12/2019 13:59

Seems to me you need a lot less evidence to convict a woman for lying about rape, than to convict a man for rape. How incredibly predictable.

Wonkydonkey44 · 30/12/2019 14:01

I believe her as well . Poor girl .

Anon7728 · 30/12/2019 14:03

Did she not got to the British Consulate ??!
Was she denied that opportunity?
Or wasn’t aware of it due to naivety?

I desperately want my daughter to travel when she is older and i do make her aware of the many risks out there - I just hope she pays attention to it!
Travelling is a wonderful thing - seeing new things, food, landscapes, sports etc, but you have to be mature and street wise.

One of my nephews travelled alone to visit family in Australia at 16 and work on his uncle’s farm for our summer, after GCSEs. My other nephews, in my opinion, are not street wise enough to do the same.

My daughter wants to visit family in Colombia at 16, alone, again I don’t feel she is mature enough - I have told her she can go at 18 and live there for a year or 2 with her family and travel a bit and work- if I feel she is mature enough by then. She is 15 now.

FairytaleofButlins · 30/12/2019 14:03

The fucking victim blaming on here.

I wouldn't advise anyone to go strolling in London with their handbag opened and their wallet and phone on show...

reminding women that one-night stands are not safe with a stranger is hardly victim blaming. I also tell my kids (the ones old enough at least) that jumping in a cab that you hail in the street and know nothing about is stupid at best.

It's hardly the point of the thread anyway, it's more posters having decided who was guilty and who was the victim when they know nothing at all. Bit of a rush judgement isn't it? How can you be so sure, "believe" someone based on a DM or other article...

june2007 · 30/12/2019 14:06

We are missing facts, and part of the problem for what I have heard. (It was either on the news or a documentary about the case last year) Is that the police didn,t record the conversations and there is no lawyers to witness. Also ssaying ways in which one can protect oneself is not victim blaming. SAying that we need facts not rumours is not victim blaming. Also I have seen people comments taken out of context, twisted and used against them on this thread.

Patroclus · 30/12/2019 14:06

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Juliette20 · 30/12/2019 14:06

I don't think anywhere is particularly safe for young women. Certainly on holiday when I was 18/19 in mainland Spain and in Tenerife there were loads of dodgy men about and we stuck together as a tight knit group and looked out for one another. I always felt little confidence in police in any country to deal with sexual crimes properly, and that we have nothing to be proud about in this country either with such a low conviction rate.

I doubt she made all this up for a bit of a laugh, it sounds from what I've read about like the men planned the attack and I believe her.

The courts here have found that apparently, if you consent to sex with one man, it's ok for their mates to come in and have a go on you as well. So sadly, it doesn't surprise me at all.

happycamper11 · 30/12/2019 14:11

Lots of people are hung up on the fact she didn't have a lawyer - but she wouldn't have done, she was reporting a crime. People don't have lawyers present to do that. Only after she retracted her statement, was she then charged with a crime and was duly provided with a lawyer as is practice. I can fully imagine the police will have pressured her in to retracting but I can't know that and neither can anyone. I'm inclined to believe her, knowing what I do or Cypriot justice and police force but I can't be sure!

The Israeli teens should have at very least have been charged with distribution of porn without consent before allowed to leave , that much is clear

Patroclus · 30/12/2019 14:18

All those shocked that this is 'normal' for young men. In certain groups and settings it is.

During Vietnam the Viet Cong used young women as diversions for things like ambushes, knowing that large groups of young men in a macho setting would gang rape without thinking nearly every time.

AFemale · 30/12/2019 14:20

I believe her.

crispysausagerolls · 30/12/2019 14:23

what did the men say when back in Israel that implied they had raped her?

Italiangreyhound · 30/12/2019 14:26

I believe her.

From what I have read the legal process here is utterly woeful.

I would not feel safe in Cyprus.

I would imagine others will feel the same. I wonder how this will impact the country.

I am rarely shocked at the vile things what some men do but I am utterly shocked that this poor woman has been detained in this way. This is a travesty of justice and I am beyond shocked that some people seem to be defending this case.

Sagradafamiliar · 30/12/2019 14:26

I BELIEVE HER. Dropping that here and leaving the thread before I get really wound up at the disgusting views upthread.

PhoneLock · 30/12/2019 14:27

Did she not got to the British Consulate ??!

From the Guardian...

"A spokesperson at the British High Commission in the capital said: “We are liaising with authorities. She needs to find a lawyer.”

She confirmed that the Briton is being held in a special women’s wing of the prison where she is receiving regular consular assistance “and being well looked after”."

Mintjulia · 30/12/2019 14:27

Time to shun Cyprus I think, as not a fit or safe place for women to go on holiday.

Thanks but I’ll spend my holiday currency elsewhere.

glasswood · 30/12/2019 14:30

If true, then this is absolutely awful. But why can't the accuser be a liar?

Mumsnet users seem to have an awful tendency of passing judgement when they have no idea about the facts. People can lie.

I'm not taking any side, but the bias in this thread is ridiculous.

HerewardTheWoke · 30/12/2019 14:33

I believe her

kirinm · 30/12/2019 14:34

If you go to the website Justice Abroad - which is assisting her, it offers a great more detail than is available in some papers. SHE says she was denied a lawyer, that it was implied that she was being asked to clarify things not likely to be held for 7 hours.

The boys allegedly screamed "British whore" and "british whore sucks dick" etc on their return.

3 of the 12 accepted that they had sex with her - we now that there were actually 4 matches of DNA found though. So if you want to believe the boys over the girl, you're going to have to accept that she was happy to have sex with 4 boys.

The officer had access to the video taken but apparently chose not to evidence it. They did acknowledge that it showed the victim shouting for the other boys to leave when they burst into the room. but somehow from shouting for the others to leave, we get to her willingly having sex with 4 of them.

I believe her.

kirinm · 30/12/2019 14:36

@Mintjulia

I have read quite a lot of stuff and reviewed things the experts and barristers have said about the case. I've also read some articles from papers that are not favouring the British girl and based on what I've been able to ascertain so far, I believe her.