Wheelchair / buggy on bus

[MoonlightMistletoe]

Today I had got the bus with my sister we both have children I had my toddler who was walking and my one year old who's only just started to walk who is still in a buggy, my sister has a 12week old baby who was also in a buggy.

We had got on the bus as you do and the next stop another parent got on with their buggy, a few stops later we stop and straight away a woman is screaming/shouting at the rear doors with her phone in our faces demanding we collapse our buggies, very angry , shouting at us with buggies and also at the driver. The driver is telling us to stay put due to her being aggressive and recording us. Someone on the bus was telling us to co operate with the woman who wanted to get a person on the bus who was in a wheelchair. We know disabled people are a priority and had absolutely not said we wouldn't put the buggies down, I was taking my sleeping one year out the buggy while this woman was still swearing and being nasty and recording us, I had given my baby to my sister to sit with my toddler and herself while I was about to take her baby out the pram then all of a sudden everyone made a "ohhhhhhh" gasp and the disabled man has fallen down the side of the curb and bus sideways in his wheelchair.

She then looses her absolute shit at us for her own mistakes being so caught up in recording us to make sure we move that the man is now probably injured.

AIBU to think all she had to do was say excuse me can we move the buggies so I can get the wheelchair on?

@gingersausage Actually it was a genuine question. Whilst unlikely, there are times that it just can't happen. So what happens then? But no. You choose to be a dick about it, throw abuse and refuse to have a discussion. Happy New year to you love.

Clearly if all the wheelchair spaces have wheelchairs in them, then no one else in a wheelchair can get on. The same as if all bb spaces are full. The equality act is about making reasonable adjustments. wheelchairs having absolute priority in those spaces ( or alternatively no one else using those spaces) is the reasonable adjustment.)
People with disabilities don't expect the earth- just reasonable adjustment.

Scrimpious ginger sausage was not throwing abuse at you. It was a ridiculous question. Of course if another wheelchair is in tne space then you wait for the next bus. That's completely different to a buggytaking up the space. I can fully understand gingers frustration at such a ridiculous question but that does not mean she was being abusive, just massively irritated that people continue to ask such ridiculous questions.

YANBU OP and don’t let anyone make you feel guilty for another person’s actions.

This thread turned into a wheelchair user vs buggy and shouldn’t have. You were allowed to be there and did try to move despite the carer being unnecessarily aggressive. Whatever happened to the carer before the bus arrived is irrelevant and why anyone wants to make excuses for her behaviour is beyond me, she still was out of order for yelling and filming someone. She was rude and neglectful and that is not on you. You are absolutely right that her actions led to his fall. No matter how bad someone’s day was it doesn’t give them a right to be abusive to anyone especially strangers.

You also posted nothing that said all carers are like that and why anyone is trying to say you did says more about them than it does about you nor have you come off as entitled. You did what you were supposed to do despite being screamed and shouted at. I don’t know how I would have reacted in that situation, yelling triggers my anxiety and I feel nervous/fearful when I have my children with me (one being 4 autistic and the other 2) and am often alone when traveling (no family nearby) so I would have struggled to move quickly (double tandem) on top of my youngest crying (he doesn’t like yelling but what child does) which would trigger my oldest to crying and it would have likely made the situation worse. It is the main reason I avoid the bus and trains during busy times unless it’s raining ,depending on how far I have to walk and even then I would wait for an unpacked bus.

Were there any cameras on the bus? This incident could have been recorded if so, perhaps you should report it. If she has form for this it may mean that she comes around the same time or other bus drivers have encountered her and she is known to those on said bus stop. It could also show if the driver or other drivers haven’t been enforcing the rules when it comes to wheelchair users and need to be brought up on it.

Ginger sausage you have my upmost respect and admiration. You battle daily and also stand up for others. You are inspirational. Ignore the petty nonsense, they are not important.

the op made this about wheelchair v buggys. look at the thread title.
this could have been just about a rude person.
but that would not have got the attention this did.
the Op keeps saying this has opened her eyes, yet still posts stuff like this.. MoonlightMistletoe Thu 02-Jan-20 19:16:17
@ilovesooty and that might be the case but it's still not acceptable behaviour so therefore the driver was right to refuse her on the bus.

so even about 15 pages in the OP still has not really changed.

i really wish mn hq would police these threads better some of the post are disablist and break the talk guide lines yet are left.
I also wish we could go back in time to when all buggys had to be folded(sn ones not included as they count as wheelchairs) then this would not be an issue.

posters are saying if people using a wheelchair are regularly barred from accessing the only space available to them on the bus whether due to the entitlement of passengers using it or due to the failure of the driver to uphold the legal status of the space then yes? Perhaps it is time to remove the 'courtesy' use extended to non wheelchair users and ring fence its exclusivity

@myrtleWilson I think this is the solution. And then also the accessible seats at the front of the bus might also be available for elderly people (generally women) who also need them far more than able-bodied young parents with buggies, frankly.

@Samcro, as I’ve said upthread, I’d rather MNHQ didn’t police these threads too closely. I’d much rather the disgusting comments were left up for everyone to see, so others know what sort of unpleasant and prejudiced people they are interacting with. Shutting these threads down does more harm than good (in my opinion only) as it silences wheelchair users and their parents even more. Threads like this give us a platform and make us visible. If even a handful of people have had their eyes opened, then that’s a good thing in my book.

@my2bundles thank you 😊

Ginger I absolutely agree with that, I must admit I didn't used to but you are right it is best to leave the comments so others can see the prejudice. On another thread recently I've has posters telling me my views are wrong and to stop commenting just because their bullying attitude makes them think others should be silenced. Well it backfires because I can see right through the bullying behaviour and who do they think they are telling me to stop 😂. I'd much prefer other posters saw them for who they really are aswell.

No I have to disagree @sashh because the man in the wheelchair would have got on the bus If the woman wasn't being abusive from the second the doors open! Therefore her actions led the man in the wheelchair unable to board because of her not me so please don't say I was discriminating because that's absolutely not true.

i do sort of agree, but sometimes I think banning disablist gf is the only way. threads and posts could be left up, but at least the posters would be gone.

Whatever happened to the carer before the bus arrived is irrelevant and why anyone wants to make excuses for her behaviour is beyond me

Because some of us have experience of disabled people and their carer's being treated badly and then shot down in flames when they react after the same bus driver has gone past 100 times.

No matter how bad someone’s day was it doesn’t give them a right to be abusive to anyone especially strangers. Unless they are a bus driver? And the person they are being aggressive to is a carer, then it's fine.

I don’t know how I would have reacted in that situation, yelling triggers my anxiety and I feel nervous/fearful when I have my children with me (one being 4 autistic and the other 2) and am often alone when traveling (no family nearby) so I would have struggled to move quickly (double tandem) on top of my youngest crying (he doesn’t like yelling but what child does) which would trigger my oldest to crying and it would have likely made the situation worse.

Hang on I thought there was no excuse for bad behaviour, even if you are disabled or are looking after a disabled person. Please make your mind up.

see the op hasn't changed.
@MoonlightMistletoe how did you get on with the complaint to the bus company?

@Samcro it's not buggy Vs Wheelchair is it
I posted buggy / wheelchair because my point being was that that woman's actions led the man in wheelchair to fall and blamed me for it for being in the space which I was aloud to be In !!! Why is it so hard to accept that she was in the wrong ???

Not once have I said ah fuck it I'm here and I'm not moving ,
Not once have I said any of this is the mans fault,
I've said and il say again I KNOW ITS A PRIORITY SPACE.
I've even agreed that perhaps buggies shouldn't be in there full stop to save this stress for wheelchair users.
I didn't refuse to move so the people making out I'm discriminating can stop taking their frustrations out on me because I'm on YOUR SIDE. Suggesting we stand together but no your not even happy with that stop fucking having a pop at the wrong people!

Also people are making out it's some sort of war between the two , and tarring buggy users with the same brush, that's not right at all there are nice people and there are selfish people, there are nice people who happen to have a buggy and there are selfish people who happen to push a buggy. There are nice carers and then there are nasty carers, there are kind people in the world and there are unkind people in the world.

Why is it so hard to understand ?

@Samcro I won't change my opinion on that matter because I was not in the wrong.

Have I learnt more about the daily struggles of disabled people yes I have , yesterday on my journey I still had my buggy but it had my sleeping 2yo in there so if I needed to fold I could wake him and he could walk (I had back pack reigns) and so I had my heavy one year old on a sling. Usually I use a double buggy so yes I have learnt ways to make life easier for others even though it was a strain on my body for me.

@MoonlightMistletoe how the hell was the wheelchair user going to get on the bloody bus without his carer? Were you going to wheel him on? No because you can’t leave your children. Was the bus driver going to get out of the bus, pick him out of the gutter, put him back in his chair and get him on the bus?? Nope. Was anyone else on the bus going to get off their arse and help him?? Let me think...no!

Just wondering if wheelchairs can use the pushchair area if there is already a wheelchair in the space.

how the hell was the wheelchair user going to get on the bloody bus without his carer

The same carer that was being abusive.The same carer who let the man fall in to the road.

I dont know why this is hard to grasp.If the care wasnt abusive they would have been on the bus.

@gingersausage ,you seem hell bent on the op being in the wrong.Why cant you accept the reason they didnt get on the bus was because of the carers attitude.

What happened to make the carer abusive is not her nor there.Her actions led to the man falling,thats not on the op.

@justcly not here, just the one space

@gingersausage ok so you are blaming me when his carer wasn't actually caring for him properly instead shouting her mouth of at ME as soon as the doors open. You can try and make me it's my fault but I know for a fact it was her own fault!

She got him up dragged him up told him to get up when clearly he couldn't , yet I'm the one getting blamed for that SERIOUSLY ! Like I said two other people where at the stop they was there with them we had three children on that bus half folded buggy a newborn yet here we go again I'm bad for not getting off to help when there were 25 other people on the bus who didn't have responsibilities who also could have got off to see him. He was getting help from the people around him it's not like we just left him there all alone is it !!

Jesus Christ no I’m not blaming you. You keep on and on trying to make this all about you, and I’ve been really patient with you but I’m reaching even my my limits.

does anyone know when the folding buggies stopped?

Probably mid 90s when buses which lowered to let wheelchairs on were introduced.

@gingersausage your posts always come back to me being in the wrong when you can't accept that if the carer didn't behave like that , he would be on the bus and he wouldn't have fell.

I don't understand, it's not like I've made a post moaning that I had to move that would be a complete different story.

No @MoonlightMistletoe they don’t. I’ve never actually once said you were in the wrong over what “happened” on the bus at all. You can read back through all my posts and see that.