Wheelchair / buggy on bus

[MoonlightMistletoe]

Today I had got the bus with my sister we both have children I had my toddler who was walking and my one year old who's only just started to walk who is still in a buggy, my sister has a 12week old baby who was also in a buggy.

We had got on the bus as you do and the next stop another parent got on with their buggy, a few stops later we stop and straight away a woman is screaming/shouting at the rear doors with her phone in our faces demanding we collapse our buggies, very angry , shouting at us with buggies and also at the driver. The driver is telling us to stay put due to her being aggressive and recording us. Someone on the bus was telling us to co operate with the woman who wanted to get a person on the bus who was in a wheelchair. We know disabled people are a priority and had absolutely not said we wouldn't put the buggies down, I was taking my sleeping one year out the buggy while this woman was still swearing and being nasty and recording us, I had given my baby to my sister to sit with my toddler and herself while I was about to take her baby out the pram then all of a sudden everyone made a "ohhhhhhh" gasp and the disabled man has fallen down the side of the curb and bus sideways in his wheelchair.

She then looses her absolute shit at us for her own mistakes being so caught up in recording us to make sure we move that the man is now probably injured.

AIBU to think all she had to do was say excuse me can we move the buggies so I can get the wheelchair on?

@gingersausage don't call yourself a cripple. And I'm sorry for your experiences

Wasn't there a court case about this scenario?

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/legal-casework/paulley-v-firstgroup-plc

@gingersausage it’s so heartbreaking to read your experience. I hope that in future people are more considerate towards you.

It’s immaterial what I call myself. Don’t let that distract from the actual point of my post.

@Bibijayne yes, and Mr Paulley won the court case, however mothers with buggies still think that they should be above the legal precedent.

@GinUnicorn thank you 😊

And it's not just a wheelchair space

I think you’ll find it is. There’s a law called the Disability Discrimination Act - the DDA. And from yesterday all public transport has to be accessible for mobility impaired people. By law.

@gingersausage

Who expects you to put up and shut up ? If I was leaning on your chair I'd expect nothing less than a "get the fuck off of me" so why do you feel you can't speak up because it's not incase anyone thinks you think that you deserve special treatment to me this is how you are valuing yourself especially what you are calling yourself !

does anyone know when the folding buggies stopped?

When parents decided they were entitled to any convenient space at the front of the bus. When - under the aforementioned DDA and other legislation campaigned for by advocates for and people with disabilities- wheel chair spaces were first provided in buses.

Because, after all, the needs of parents are faaaaar more important than the needs of people with distant or the frail and elderly ( who also need accessible spaces at the front of the bus.

@Dolorabelle so people with buggies stuck that sticker on the bus which says "buggy users may use this space" ?

@Dolorabelle discrimination would have been me not moving which I in fact was so I assume you arnt directing that at me and are generally speaking.

@MoonlightMistletoe are you joking? Have you not seen the number of people in this thread accusing wheelchair users of “being aggressive” or “bullying”? I can guarantee that 99% of them were just trying to stand up for themselves and be heard, but as proven time and time again on here, no one listens to us. If we dare to raise our voices, and not sit there all meek and mild like good little stereotypes, we are aggressive.

And do not presume to tell me how I value myself. If I want to reclaim the word cripple for myself I will. I would not and do not use it to refer to any other disabled person.

Those people saying "ITS A WHEELCHAIR SPACE NOBODH ELSE IS ALLOWED NEAR IT" - are you seriously suggesting that if a bus was packed to the rafters and there was no space left for anyone else to get on (with or without buggies), other than the space reserved for wheelchairs, then the driver should refuse to let anymore passengers on.....until they reach a stop where there's a passenger with a wheelchair, then they're allowed to get on. But if nobody with a wheelchair needs to get on for the rest of the journey, the driver has refused other passengers for absolutely no reason.

That’s what has now happened here

The bus company owners got so sick of the hassle of people refusing to move out of the space that they now don’t allow anyone to use the wheelchair space unless there is a wheelchair

No standing in it. No second buggy in it. No luggage

Basically people can’t be trusted to respect what the space is actually for so they don’t let people borrow it even for a second now

muddypuddles posters are saying if people using a wheelchair are regularly barred from accessing the only space available to them on the bus whether due to the entitlement of passengers using it or due to the failure of the driver to uphold the legal status of the space then yes? Perhaps it is time to remove the 'courtesy' use extended to non wheelchair users and ring fence its exclusivity.

@gingersausage No I'm not joking I am actually bothered by the fact people have made you undervalue yourself and made others feel like they have to stay at home.

Yes I saw a few which were deleted , and I saw early in the thread someone say something really nasty which I did not agree with.

This thread has been a massive eye opener to what really goes on. I do feel however my actual points arnt to do with disabled people it was literally to do with that one specific woman. I'm not labelling every carer or wheelchair user aggressive or a bully at all I know that's not true.

@gingersausage ok sorry I just read your updated post about how you value yourself I just hope you don't let others make you feel shit because you are human and no body should be made to feel bad. I don't mean that in a patronising way at all I generally thank you for speaking out and sharing your experiences because although some people can be nasty I'm hoping everyone who's read this thread has become more aware of that actually goes on.

I think you’ll find it is. There’s a law called the Disability Discrimination Act - the DDA. And from yesterday all public transport has to be accessible for mobility impaired people. By law.

So if a bus has two wheelchair spaces and both are taken by wheelchairs and a third wants to get in at the next stop how does this work? I know it's unlikely situation but surely there's always a chance they just can't get on?

@Scrumptiousbears now you are just being facetious. Obviously we’re not so fucking stupid that we expect a fellow wheelchair user to get off so we can get on 🤦‍♀️.

It's not the buggy users fault if we are aloud in the space clearly the rules need to be changed here.

The LAW, the Disability Discrimination Act is unique in British law that of all the anti discrimination laws this one allows for more favourable treatment for disabled people.

As I said before, people with buggies are allowed to use the space as a courtesy, as something nice to help people out. But instead the people with buggies see it as their entitlement.

Do you ever travel by train OP not many buggies on trains.

And do you know where wheelchair users sit on trains? Well since the introduction of the intercity 125 wheelchair users have been allowed to sit in the carriage, i the designated space, if there is one. But even now you may be forced to travel in the guard's van.

And that's with 24 hours notice ot the train company.

OP

|If you and your sister were not allowed on a bus at regular intervals because someone said they needed 10 seats each, you would soon become that angry person.

@muddypuddles12
Yes, exactly that. The bus driver should not be allowed to fill the bus to maximum capacity. They should be required by law to leave the wheelchair space accessible. And passengers fined for not doing so. And shamed for not allowing mums to sit down with babes in arms. Society is in a shambles. So many entitled people.

I need to apologise to @ItsReallyNotOk. My post of 20:10:55 was supposed to be supportive of her post but came across badly and looks as though I was attacking her. That wasn’t at all how it was meant, and I’m sorry.

@sashh I can't seem to find any information you are talking about regarding the DDA? I can only see that it was replaced by the equality act 2010, I would like to be more aware of these things so if you don't mind sending the link or pointing me into the right direction so I can learn more that would be helpful.

You are suggesting that I felt entitled which isn't the case at all, I don't think it's right to say that all people with buggies feel they are entitled because I wasn't refusing to move, my problem was not having the chance to move and receiving abuse instead from the get go.

I don't travel on the train I have done In the past a good few years ago, I haven't needed to so no I don't know where wheelchairs go.
I am aware however that there is a huge problem with access on trains for disabled people which honestly I can't get my head around it as it blows my mind how wheelchair users have not been taken into consideration from the beginning.

As for your last comment , yes she may have been angry but I will say it still does not give her the right to take those frustrations out on me in that way to the extent that her actions led that man to fall. That was wrong and no fault of my own.

Every school morning I have to wait until there is a space for myself and my buggy to get on a tram yes it's horrible always being left til last waiting and waiting to get back in the cold weather especially when my baby is crying from being so cold but I don't shout at the people because of it. Yes it's different for wheelchair users using a bus and do understand it is a struggle that shouldn't have to be.

Every school morning I have to wait until there is a space for myself and my buggy to get on a tram yes it's horrible always being left til last waiting and waiting to get back in the cold weather especially when my baby is crying from being so cold but I don't shout at the people because of it.

If your baby was being made unwell and possibly hospitalised from getting cold you might understand a tiny bit of what wheelchair users go through.

As for links start here

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/equality-act-and-disabled-people

Collectively you, the driver and the other people on the bus stopped someone getting on the bus. If you had done that because the person waiting was black or muslim you would not be making this shades of grey.

You jointly stopped someone getting on a bus for something that was not their fault.

You assume the woman was a carer, you don't know that.

How would you feel if you were not allowed on the bus because your baby was crying? Or you had spilled coffee on your clothes or you were wearing a work uniform or one of hundreds of reasons that are beyond your control?

The bus companies HAVE to make 'reasonable adjustments', they have done that by creating spaces and fitting ramps to busses.

They have no legal obligation to make adjustments for people with buggies.

OP I honestly would leave this thread now. You have accepted how actions can affect others on buses and have shown you are keen to learn more to further help and consider others, nothing you say will stop people having a go so I wouldn't bother.