Wheelchair / buggy on bus

[MoonlightMistletoe]

Today I had got the bus with my sister we both have children I had my toddler who was walking and my one year old who's only just started to walk who is still in a buggy, my sister has a 12week old baby who was also in a buggy.

We had got on the bus as you do and the next stop another parent got on with their buggy, a few stops later we stop and straight away a woman is screaming/shouting at the rear doors with her phone in our faces demanding we collapse our buggies, very angry , shouting at us with buggies and also at the driver. The driver is telling us to stay put due to her being aggressive and recording us. Someone on the bus was telling us to co operate with the woman who wanted to get a person on the bus who was in a wheelchair. We know disabled people are a priority and had absolutely not said we wouldn't put the buggies down, I was taking my sleeping one year out the buggy while this woman was still swearing and being nasty and recording us, I had given my baby to my sister to sit with my toddler and herself while I was about to take her baby out the pram then all of a sudden everyone made a "ohhhhhhh" gasp and the disabled man has fallen down the side of the curb and bus sideways in his wheelchair.

She then looses her absolute shit at us for her own mistakes being so caught up in recording us to make sure we move that the man is now probably injured.

AIBU to think all she had to do was say excuse me can we move the buggies so I can get the wheelchair on?

And people wonder why young mums choose to drive?

When DD1 was a baby, and I couldn't drive, i lived somewhere with 3 buses a day. Lots of mums used it, and sometimes a wheelchair user. Plus elderly etc... The bus was always rammed. Everyone had an easy to fold buggy- no one fancied walking a few miles along an NSL A road with cars frequently going above 60.

However in this case, the woman list moral high ground by becoming abusive before the situation arose. I can understand the frustration, but it was aimed at the wrong people.

AIBU to think all she had to do was say excuse me can we move the buggies so I can get the wheelchair on?

Hmmmm ....

You don't know how many times she's asked politely and had women laugh in her face and refuse or threaten violence. I've seen that happen more than I've seen your scenario.

Imagine every single trip you make by public transport having to gird up your mind & body to "ask politely" for what is your basic human right?

Imagine never knowing whether you are going to be able to make your trip?

Thing is, you should have folded your buggies in the first place, even before the designated user (ie a wheelchair user) of that space needed to use it.

Equanimitas according to your logic an empty wheelchair would take priority over a disabled child in a buggy, which is bonkers. It’s an accessibility space for people who need it. Plenty of parents keep disabled children in buggies for as long as possible because they are easier to handle and store. They have equal access to wheelchair users to the accessibility space.

A similar case could be made for a disabled adult who cannot carry their child or fold their buggy, they should have access to the accessibility space.

I do agree with you though that able bodied adults with able bodied children in buggies should make room for people who need the accessibility space.

@Tetran did you really just say “people aren’t really arsed about mums”?? 🤣🤣🤣 Are you having a laugh? On MN, where casual disablism is par for the course and mummies with buggies are bloody sacrosanct?? No one cares about mums????

You seriously need to check your privilege. In a certain amount of years, you will never have to worry about how to get your pram on the bus again. I will always be in my wheelchair. I will always be bitched at on here for daring to go out in public, taking space up on the pavement, wanting to travel on a bus, being a benefit claiming scum-bag, work-shy lazy arse. Mothers are bloody sainted compared to wheelchair users, so don’t you dare even go there.

@Booboostwo, your logic is extremely weird. How can the statement "It's a space for people in wheelchairs" ever translate into "an empty wheelchair would take priority over a disabled child in a buggy"?

And, Booboostwo, I wrote about a baby in a buggy who is disabled, not a child. The distinction matters.

If you answer a post, it's a good idea to read it properly.

Only on MN will people think a buggy trumps a wheelchair user. The attitudes towards disabled people one here honestly disgust me. People who think their choice to have a child makes them the most important people in the world.

Anyway the woman should not have shouted and should have asked first. I understand she may have had past experiences where people wouldn’t fold their buggies so she overreacted but she was unnecessarily harsh.

The bus companies don't help the situation. Arriva North East, for example, don't enforce the space and offer it on a forest come, first served basis. If you do leave the bus to make room for someone in a wheelchair they don't provide a forwarding ticket as they say it's your own fault for leaving the bus so then you have to pay for your journey again when the next bus comes. So if the drivers aren't consistently asking people to fold up and they're financially penalising people who get off to make room, is it any wonder some people are reluctant to give up the space?

I have seen buses with space for both users. Go North East have a wheelchair space on one side of the bus with safety bar and bulkhead and a pushchair space on the opposite side with flip down seating. Pushchairs get priority for the pushchair space as it is too narrow to safely accommodate a wheelchair and has no safety bar, wheelchair users get priority for the wheelchair space. Other users can use these spaces on the understanding that they move if a priority user needs them. This company also has an "easy access guarantee" and if a wheelchair user is unable to board the bus for any reason then the company provides a complimentary taxi. More companies should follow this lead.

@strawberrieshortcake The awful awful attitudes by some people about those with disabilities are also rife on the national parks thread. It’s like some people enjoy committing hate crimes.

Just to clarify things a bit, the law as it stands doesn’t actually compel you to move.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules

It compels the bus company to make adjustments for the disabled passenger, which might include the driver insisting that you move, but doesn’t actually legal require you to do so. The driver was in the wrong here.

My ds is disabled and in a buggy. They don't even consider giving you a wheelchair until they are three and even then they usually provide a buggy until school age.

He can't stand or sit unsupported. Would I not take priority over a wheelchair user?

Obvs if I was in the space first.

Thing is, you should have folded your buggies in the first place, even before the designated user (ie a wheelchair user) of that space needed to use it.

No they shouldn't have. If the space is empty then it can be used by anyone on the bus, including pushchairs, provided they move when the space is needed by someone who has priority for it.

The issue here is that the woman didn't give them opportunity to move before berating them for not moving.

Last time I had to fold up for a man in a wheelchair his wife got on first and paid for their tickets on the scanner while the driver got off and attached the ramp. While she was doing that I called over that I would be out of their way in a minute, just folding it up. By the time they actually got onto the bus I was 90% done and the man held DD on his knee while I stashed the buggy. No fuss, no drama, everyone happy.

My ds is disabled and in a buggy. They don't even consider giving you a wheelchair until they are three and even then they usually provide a buggy until school age.

The driver would not be legally required to move you for a wheelchair user. The space is for those who need an accessible space, and the needs of the disabled (including your DS) have greater legal protection than those of others.

My ds is disabled and in a buggy. They don't even consider giving you a wheelchair until they are three and even then they usually provide a buggy until school age.

Theres a card you can get which tells bus drivers that your pushchair is to be considered as a wheelchair for transport purposes. I cant remember the name of it now but I'll post a link when I do.

I hate these discussions. People with prams and people with wheelchairs need to stand together and push for change in the way busses are designed so this isn't an issue

q

In London how it would have been dealt with depends on the driver and size of the bus.

I have seen buggy users told to get off and others just immediately get off rather than fold their buggy down, but if there is one wheelchair and one buggy even if there is only one wheelchair space some drivers will accommodate both.

People with prams and people with wheelchairs need to stand together and push for change in the way busses are designed so this isn't an issue

People with wheelchairs have stood together and pushed for change. Hence the fact wheelchair spaces even exist now.

People with prams and people with wheelchairs need to stand together and push for change in the way busses are designed so this isn't an issue

And this is totally true.

@Vafanculo Sounds like more of a time management problem on your part. You shpuld have left enough time for a 5 minute hold up be of no affect to you getting your flight.

@Hedgehogblues I've seen parents having to wait for the next bus and the next because the wheelchair space is full with other buggies and they have too much stuff to fold down their buggy.

I think a lot of the issue is some buggy users seem incapable of sorting themselves out so they can fold their buggy down quickly if necessary.

Equanimitas
Disabled children in buggies are the same as wheelchairs. You’re wrong about wheelchair users taking precedence over disabled buggy users.

@gingersausage that's quite an assumption, in reality my sibling has a life limiting disability, and I have volunteered hours into campaigning for a truly accessible toilet in the high street because there was zero provision; I also think that it's disgraceful that the government pesters, asks people to prove that they are still disabled to receive a minimal amount of money. They should receive more, and not be exposed to such a disgusting system. I also think it's sad that often mums are told not to go out because the bus companies can't make better luggage racks, or as per a thread a few weeks ago, shouldn't go out until the baby is out of a pram unless they want to go to the toilet with the door open or leaving their baby with a stranger outside in public. Having worked in perinatal mental health being isolated is a huge contributing factor. Yes the need is transient, and it's in no way more important than ensuring measures are taken to ensure that people with disabilities can access infastructure (although there's a long way to go and it should be a priority), but also dismissing it and having seen women be sent off in the middle of nowhere is not good. Often it's cited as well it was your choice, which is true, but can you imagine if women started pushing for their own pushchair spaces on buses? There would be outrage, and logistically there's no room, so it would likely eat into the wheelchair spaces.