Wheelchair / buggy on bus

[MoonlightMistletoe]

Today I had got the bus with my sister we both have children I had my toddler who was walking and my one year old who's only just started to walk who is still in a buggy, my sister has a 12week old baby who was also in a buggy.

We had got on the bus as you do and the next stop another parent got on with their buggy, a few stops later we stop and straight away a woman is screaming/shouting at the rear doors with her phone in our faces demanding we collapse our buggies, very angry , shouting at us with buggies and also at the driver. The driver is telling us to stay put due to her being aggressive and recording us. Someone on the bus was telling us to co operate with the woman who wanted to get a person on the bus who was in a wheelchair. We know disabled people are a priority and had absolutely not said we wouldn't put the buggies down, I was taking my sleeping one year out the buggy while this woman was still swearing and being nasty and recording us, I had given my baby to my sister to sit with my toddler and herself while I was about to take her baby out the pram then all of a sudden everyone made a "ohhhhhhh" gasp and the disabled man has fallen down the side of the curb and bus sideways in his wheelchair.

She then looses her absolute shit at us for her own mistakes being so caught up in recording us to make sure we move that the man is now probably injured.

AIBU to think all she had to do was say excuse me can we move the buggies so I can get the wheelchair on?

gingersausage I'm so sorry this happened to you. Dick of a driver (and passengers who could have helped.)

Disabled people are treated so badly.

I've said this before but I think buggies should pay a charge of £5 or £10 if it is not folded. People would soon learn to fold their buggies / buy a buggy that they can fold
You gonna come and hold a baby for me then? Next month we have an hour 15 commute on two buses way with my 24 week old twins and my son who's on permanganate o2 and tube fed I cannot physically carry two newborns, my sons o2, nappy bag, sons feed bag, keep a hand on him, fold the double buggy and get it all a bus. And certainly not for buses. And the appt is for eldest child hospital so not optional. You think it should cost nearly my weeks carers allowance to catch the bus and still have to get off if someone needs the spot but it be perfectly acceptable for someone to get on with so much shopping they take up two seats, or a trolley bag so big they to use the front seats or any they number gf things where people use more than their designated foot space. You think treating parent with pushchairs like scum is the answer?

It certainly is the sort of thread that brings out the dislike of people with disabilities and their carers trolls out.
We have already had the 'I know a nice disabled person who would always give way to a mum with a pram' and 'i know a nice disabled person who uses DLA to get a taxi' boxes ticked. Still waiting for the 'free car' to appear

OK so would you be happy if buggies were never allowed in the wheelchair space? The space is a 'reasonable adjustment' dictated by law for a wheelchair user, as a courtesy it can be used by others but it is not designed for them.

Huh? It’s not a “courtesy”. It’s a space with a clear purpose: to be used by any passenger, but with priority for a passenger in a wheelchair, such that the seat should be vacated if the need arises. I don’t see where the “would you rather” comes into it.

SleepingStandingUp

Don’t worry; you get a lot of this on here. Most people are decent and see that you are just a parent doing their best, and no, they wouldn’t expect you pay a surcharge to transport your babies safely.

I think the problem is that lots of people have prams for newborns that don’t easily collapse. I would need to lift off the bassinet and then separately fold the base. And where would I store both of those? And that’s before factoring carrying a bag and a baby whilst I’m doing that.

Most parents (I’m not assuming it’s all Mums like most on here are) are just following the guidelines to have baby in a lie flat bassinet until 6 months.

What would be really helpful is for someone who thinks all that is super easy to post the make and model of prams that meet the newborn requirements but are easily foldable.

Toddlers are a different point. There are plenty of strollers that are easily foldable and don’t take up a lot of space.

I have. Your point is"?

ODFOD. I'm saying more times than not buggy users get off the bus.

Am guessing his carer was at the end of her wits and that's why she lost her temper. This probably wasn't the first bus she waited for which had no room for the wheelchair

But apparently this is either a) not true; or b) completely incomprehensible.

I have seen wheelchair users laughed at and threatened with violence by women with prams refusing to move on buses. And been threatened myself on trying to intervene.

I very rarely use the bus and when DS was about 2 we went on the bus as a "treat" for him. Bus was quiet and we managed to fit into the area designated for buggies or wheelchair users. I was the only small pushchair there.

A couple of stops down and the bus starts to fill up but still no other buggies or wheelchairs so all fine. Then next stop the driver pulls over and there is a wheelchair user.

Driver opens his doors and shouts out "sorry mate, the space is taken" and gestures a thumb at me. Drivers starts to follow it up with "don't blame me, it's not my fault" as he closes the doors with another thumb gesture aimed at me as if to say it's my fault and drives away from the stop.

I pressed the bell and shouted to the front, "don't blame me either! I would have moved over or folded up the buggy! There's plenty of room" and he COMPLETELY ignored me like I didn't exist. It was so bizarre and the whole incident really bothered me.

I personally hate buggies as one woman with her blooming buggy caused me to miss a flight by seconds angry She honestly took 5 minutes to get on the fucking bus. There was steam leaving me.

If you had only five minutes and a few seconds spare to catch a plane, you were already late. Your fault not hers.

@sunshinesupermum thank you 😊. It’s sad that you’re probably the only person who bothered to read my post. Too many people on here already know everything about being disabled 🙄.

@Spikeyball, oh yes the free car 🤣. Which would be great if a) it was free and b) I wasn’t too disabled to drive it.

IT WOULD BE SO NICE IF JUST ONCE IN A WHILE PEOPLE ACTUALLY STOPPED TALKING AND LISTENED TO WHAT DISABLED PEOPLE AND WHEELCHAIR USERS HAVE TO SAY INSTEAD OF CARRYING ON AGREEING WITH THEIR OWN INTERNAL MONOLOGUE, OUTDATED IDEAS AND LONG HELD PREJUDICES.

OP YANBU

The fact that this is a wheelchair/buggy related issue means people are ignoring the fact that the issue was to do with the carer being aggressive and confrontational without giving anyone a chance to react, not an argument over priority.

Being a carer does not absolve you of basic courtesy. This woman was rude and aggressive from the second the bus doors opened. She may have had issues accessing buses in the past but that doesn not give her the right to be aggressive to any bus user she feels like. It is no different to the priority seating on public transport - if you need to use it, make people aware (politely) and they will usually make it available and if not then that is the time to be more forceful. If you start screaming at them because they havent psychically known you need it then you are the unreasonable one.

It can be frustrating and stressful having to advocate for disabled access, but sticking a phone in someone's face and being aggressive is not the way to go. There are many reasons why the OP should have been given at least a moment to react before being berated. It may not have been safe for the OP to stand and start moving/folding the buggy until the bus stopped, at which point the carer was already shouting at them. Where I live, in the town centre, bus stops rarely serve just one route so the OP may have been waiting to ensure the space was needed for the wheelchair before faffing with the buggy.

Also I agree with the bus driver - if someone is being aggressive then they will be refused travel. If that aggressive person is a carer accompanying a wheelchair user who cannot travel without them then the only person who is restricting the wheelchair user from travelling is the carer. The driver clearly told the OP not to put the buggy down because he did not plan to allow the carer to board the bus due to her aggressive behaviour, which unfortunately meant that the wheelchair user would not be able to board either (as I assume the wheelchair user could not have boarded/travelled independently) and therefore the accessible space did not need to be vacated.

Internal monologue, out dated ideas and prejudices have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it is seriously not okay to be aggressive, shouting / swearing and filming people on a bus who have literally done nothing wrong.

OP I'd have been pretty frightened by that incident. You were making use of a space on the bus and were both willing and able to move for a wheelchair user. You did not deserve that woman's reaction and I'm glad the bus driver upheld the rule about abusive people being refused travel.

It would have left me housebound in the weeks after my last c-section

I presume you were thankful your condition only left you struggling for a few weeks. Those with lifelong conditions would be left housebound permanently if people who had a c-section were considered more important.

Wheelchairs do not just “tip over.”

There are all sorts of things that can cause a wheelchair to tip. Brakes not on and a wheel dips down a kerb. Easily done.

I'd be raging too if I had to constantly ASK POLITELY if someone could move so I could get on a bus because they were too selfish to think forward.

It is exhausting. Every time we use the tram we have to ask people to move out of the wheelchair seats, even though there are lots of other seats on the tram, people pick these seats. I see them do it every day when I use it for commuting too.

would take priority over a disabled child in a buggy, which is bonkers. It’s an accessibility space for people who need it. Plenty of parents keep disabled children in buggies for as long as possible because they are easier to handle and store. They have equal access to wheelchair users to the accessibility space

We used the buggy as long as we could. We had a “treat as a wheelchair” sign for it. There was no problem with that whatsoever.

If he needs to go somewhere during busy times he books a taxi paidnfor through his DLA because he knows it's a nightmare getting in a busy bus at rush hour. He personally would not want someone with a buggy to have to get off a bus for him.

Lucky him he has spare DLA to be able to do this. For many their PIP payments disappear on living expenses. Having a disability costs on average 570 a month more. Enhanced PIP is 265 per month. Not everyone can splash out on a taxi to spare the mum with a buggy having to be a little bit inconvenienced.

Still waiting for the 'free car' to appear

Which is always a Mercedes!

Our “free car” cost us 3k down and takes all of the DLA we are supposed to use for taxis if we want to save the mums on buses.

What would be really helpful is for someone who thinks all that is super easy to post the make and model of prams that meet the newborn requirements but are easily foldable.*
According to threads like these...

1. That's your problem. You chose to a have a baby, you should have figured this first.
2. But isn't meant to be. you. Why should you have it easy. In days gone past women didn't have it easy, why should you.

3.you should walk anyway, regardless of distance.

1. Baby wear, even if it's triplets.

As a pp say, drivers can be totally at fault here. I've certainly been on buses where the driver hasn't given chance for anyone to move and even when I've gone to argue have been told it's fine (by the driver) cos there's another one coming, as he's driving away.
Most parents will move, or will under pressure but the more a procrastination of a few minutes means the driver gives up, the more people will think they can push their luck. Drivers should at least be doing their job

Because I dont know anyone in a chair I was quite ignorant to their problems in places like public transport and accessible toilets. I remember being told off by someone for using the accessible toilet when I didn't need to and that is sort of when I realised (I was 15).
I think part of the problem is general ignorance. But also, new mums are trying to tackle a lot of changes, often are running on next to no sleep and motherhood can be one hell of a shock to some so they just don't think. I imagine that often they just aren't thinking, or are just frustrated as baby has only just fallen asleep or they're knackered and want to sit down etc. I'm not saying this to excuse them, and I certainly dont believe that wheelchair users should be denied their right to use the space over a tired mum. Absolutely not. But the amount of able bodied people on buses who don't have babies or children in prams, who sit their and don't offer to help a clearly struggling mother fold down her pram, or help a wheelchair user access the bus or basically do anything other than pretend they just can't see is horrible.
I've seen people refuse to get off a bus just temporarily to allow a wheelchair user to board, and I've seen prams bring pulled off luggage racks to make space some some teenager to sit there. Drivers generally do fuck all and the general public are often just as bad.
Yes people do choose to become parents, but many don't choose the MH conditions or physical injury they also get as part of the package. So basically, offer to help them fold down their pushchair before you sit and judge them. They certainly don't have the right to prevent a wheelchair user accessing the bus but there is no need to be a dick towards them unless they themselves are being a dick towards the wheelchair user trying to access their own space.

On a side note, people always say that parents should campaign for proper bus spaces and more toilets etc. The reason they won't is it's only ever a problem for a short period of time. I remember being furious at the lack of parent facilities when DS was a newborn, now he's 3 I've forgotten half the issues I had or where they took place. At the time they felt like huge issues, now they're barely a memory. I've got different problem now. It takes years to campaign for change, so by the time a parent started campaigning and change actually happened, they've probably given up and moved onto the next issue and wouldn't benefit from the campaign actions anymore. Wheelchair users and disabled people are (often) affected for life. They've experienced the shitness, they've campaigned and fought for results and some have seen these results actioned and benefitted from them. That's why parents don't put up more of a fight.

@MintyMabel you are correct. I was very glad that my mobility was only limited for 6 weeks or so. I’m not sure which part of my post gave you the impression that I thought those recovering from sections were more important than those with life limiting conditions? In fact, in the latter half of my post I made it very clear that whilst I was recovering and using buses/unable to fold my pram, I would always leave the bus if a wheelchair user required the space, the space being rightfully theirs and not mine. Doesn’t matter that I was temporarily struggling, it’s a wheelchair space, not a ‘having a tough few weeks in an otherwise fairly easy life’ space. You seem to be looking for a fight and I’m not quite sure why 🤷🏻‍♀️

Where I live the bus company owners have got so sick of arguments between people with prams and other passengers that unfolded prams only allowed in second pram or wheelchair space

The main wheelchair space is completely reserved and a second pram has to be folded no matter how empty the bus is

You can actually see a difference in the prams people are buying locally. More seem to be taking the need to fold it into consideration when buying

The bus drivers have always been the type to help you with a pram or a case (usually other passengers get their first) so people get help on and off

I fully get why parents don’t put up more of a fight to get specific facilities for themselves, however that doesn’t give them the right to abuse facilities for others because it is easier for them like too many do.

I’m not sure which part of my post gave you the impression that I thought those recovering from sections were more important than those with life limiting conditions

The bit where you were oh so appalled that a bus company had a policy which benefits wheelchair users but would have inconvenienced you for a few weeks.

@Sirzy absolutely right. It's easier to 'pinch' something which benefits you even though it belongs to someone else than fighting for your own. Myself included in this but it's a shame that more people who kick off about facilities don't actually do something about it. Short sighted and selfish.

@Sirzy absolutely right. It's easier to 'pinch' something which benefits you even though it belongs to someone else than fighting for your own. Myself included in this but it's a shame that more people who kick off about facilities don't actually do something about it. Short sighted and selfish.

In fairness, I’m pretty sure the accessible seats pre-date the “wheelchair space” and they used to be called “buggy spaces”. So - and I’m not complaining because of course there needs to be a wheelchair space - I think this is more a situation where parents with children in buggies have (as a group) had facilities they previously enjoyed limited or taken away, than that they just haven’t bothered asking for them. No?

Buggy spaces did not exist before wheelchair spaces, no.

my2bundles

I seem to remember that they existed before laws saying they had to be given up to a wheelchair user. In fact, I remember sitting and standing in them. 🤷🏻‍♀️