To take the DC on holiday to Dubai?

[FudgeBrownie2019]

We have two DC, 14 and 9. We've travelled fairly regularly with them but haven't ever done anywhere like Dubai/UAE. DH has found some summer holidays in those areas but I have a little weird feeling about going there - no idea why, no rational reason, I'm just uneasy but can't really put it into words.

Would you go there with DC? Have you been there with DC? Is it somewhere you'd be willing to visit?

Leaving aside 'moral objections' what is so great about the place? You can get beach holidays in Spain or Portugal or any number of other places which are cheaper, closer to home, have milder climates and a more interesting social and cultural environment. Who wants to spend 5K for a week in some tacky, soulless hotel being waited on by indentured labour?

Totally agree with this too.

You seem determined to prove me wrong with regards to interaction with locals in the UAE.

I'm not. I'm just saying your experience is not that of someone who goes as a tourist for 2 weeks.

You don't need to be irritated about being wrong.

So I'm wrong to say that almost all of the waiters, drivers, cleaners, receptionists, shop assistants and all the other people one is likely to encounter as a tourist are not local?

Tbh I think many of the negative reactions to Dubai comes from a middle class snobbery associating Dubai holidays with the likes of Towie rather than a deeply moral objection

Rubbish

No I would never go to Dubai even if a won a holiday in a competition.

I think it's very safe personally and an amazing experience but I wouldn't go to the desert in mid summer. Go when it's cool enough to explore.

Who wants to spend 5K for a week in some tacky, soulless hotel being waited on by indentured labour?

And that's definitely your choice. However I personally know a taxi driver from Pakistan out there who has built a home and university educated four children through working in the UAE. No it's not perfect but a LOT of those working there do very well out of it but we don't hear so much about them. There's a reason that millions of people choose to live and work there.

So I'm wrong to say that almost all of the waiters, drivers, cleaners, receptionists, shop assistants and all the other people one is likely to encounter as a tourist are not local?

As I said, is interaction with locals only valid if they're serving you? And I don't I said you were wrong about that did I? That wasn't the argument. The argument was that you'd be unlikely to come across any Emirati citizens in your time there, which isn't true unless you sit in the hotel or on the beach for two weeks. It's like any holiday destination. You'll never get the true flavour of it if you do that no matter how many heart to hearts you have with the local bar tender.

I wouldn’t go to Dubai if I was paid to

No it's not perfect

Given that there is no freedom of speech or assembly, no trade unions or right to strike and that your happy taxi driver will to all extents and purposes have no rights whatsoever then yeah, I'd say it's not perfect.

I’ve been. It was the most disappointing place I’ve ever visited. Take your kids somewhere else

Leaving aside 'moral objections' what is so great about the place? it depends what you want in a holiday, I make no apologies that I want Lucy art and relaxation, I want guaranteed weather for my 1 holiday a year, to stay in a nice hotel with good food and facilities.
A couple of years back we went to Tenerife, overcast on 3/7 days we were there. Last year Rhodes- was nice but for a 5 star hotel it was less than half as amazing as the hotels in Dubai. Also to get sun in Europe you do have to go at peak time- Dubai is nice all year round pretty much.

Lucy art ? I meant luxury bloody auto correct

Is this the place where the princess has gone missing after trying to escape from her controlling family?

She’s the third princess to have attempted escaping

As I said, is interaction with locals only valid if they're serving you?

No, but for the majority of tourists who don't speak the language and are only on a short visit, that in practice is what most of their encounters with locals will consist of. An opportunity they won't have in a country where almost no local would lower themselves to work in a service industry.

Just checking those against Dubai holidays on human right objections wouldn’t go to China, Russia, India .....?

China's human rights are pretty dreadful yes. India is a democracy and I've been there a few times and yes felt distressed. The country doesn't run on tourism though, you're pretty much irrelevant there.

your happy taxi driver will to all extents and purposes have no rights whatsoever then yeah, I'd say it's not perfect

And that's the choice he made. He weighed up the benefits and made that choice. I guess fully grown men and women get to make that choice and it was better than where he came from and the opportunities there. You can't solve these problems by not visiting. The money you spend is why they're there. It's fine to make that statement and choose to spend your money elsewhere but don't kid yourself it makes any difference to people like him.

I think the main reason DH chose it was because of the sports; the DC are both very active and DS1 is mad about scuba diving, working towards each PADI stage whenever he can, and DS2 is following in his footsteps, spending as much time in/on water as humanly possible. The resort he looked at had cracking water sports on offer and I think that swayed him.

I hadn't realised people felt so very strongly over the place, though, and reading more it seems that there are pretty good reasons to look elsewhere.

Well @IcedPurple when I went in early
90's to stay with British relatives working there, they had Arab friends from all over Middle East inviting us into their homes to show us their ways, camel rides and desert dune drives. It was incredible - if you allow yourself to be open. It is the most moderate country in the Middle East, very diverse, beautiful weather and scenery

I'd never go there. Beneath all of the glitz and glamour is a whole new world. They treat their foreign domestic and labour workers appallingly and women face discrimination. There are constant Human Rights violations. I wouldn't feel comfortable visiting such a place where I knew such things are taking place. The world is your oyster.

If you are the kind of person who does not care about culture or history (or human rights) and just wants a fancy hotel and ritzy lifestyle which you can Instagram to your audience of similarly shallow peers then it would probably be the place for you.

For everyone else, just why would you. I’m embarrassed for you.

India is a democracy and I've been there a few times and yes felt distressed. The country doesn't run on tourism though, you're pretty much irrelevant there how’s that irrelevant, people have mentioned misogyny of the Middle East, the rape culture of India I wouldn’t say is something to support.
Ultimately the fact is morals mean nothing if you want to go somewhere.

i’m embarrassed for you get over yourself, it’s a holiday ffs

@babasaclover last time we went there was a car exhibition at the hotel we were at. Loads of car owners turned up in their classic and performance cars. Multiple car owners invited ds to sit in and examine their cars when he took a photo or expressed interest, they spent ages chatting to him about them. Couldn't have been kinder or more welcoming.

Why are people complaining the staff won't be local? It's a place that's exploded in recent years and I doubt there are anywhere near enough locals to fill jobs. If you visit London it's very likely that your waiting staff will be polish or Italian, your hotel receptionist Spanish, your taxi driver Pakistani. Diversity is good and some of these people are making a living they could only dream of in their home country.