To think this is unreasonable and this judge knowingly scentenced this man to death

[Sootyandsweep2019]

Just read a heartbreaking story in the paper about an 87 year old man, who given a 27 month prison sentence after he killed someone in a car accident. The judge was warned at the time by the man's doctors that this was highly likely to lead to his death; but went ahead and did it anyway. As predicted, he died nine days later. This was not murder, this was not malicious; it was a complete, tragic accident.

By all means ban him from driving if he was a danger, look at tightening the driving regulations around older drivers.

But our obsession with "making people pay," for genuine accidents has led to this utter tragedy .

The poor man must have been terrified. I really think this particular judge/ case needs urgent investigation; and we need a wider look at whether prison is always an appropriate response to car accident s like this.

Sadly I don't expect the judge/ CPS/ solicitors etc. Feel guilty at all.

The lack of critical thinking is unreal.

I’m glad you recognise that in yourself, maybe 2020 will be the year you develop those skills.

Or instead of being obsessed with punishment and retribution the government could of used the accident to change laws regarding retesting and older / 80+ drivers; which would have prevented many more people dying than subjecting this poor man to a hellish death ever would. Unfortunately, my approach, ( which would have undoubtedly saved more lives than the grim punishment for punishment's sake mindset on here ), is beyond the limited comprehension of some of the poster's posting.

Lobby your MP then if you want the law to change. It is what it is. And the law has been changed to increase sentencing and offences in these cases because there had been public angst at people “getting off” with minor punishments following committing road traffic offences. Using unnecessarily emotive language and describing a judge who was using her expertise and training to carry out her role within the confines of the law as it stands as “sentencing him to death” is pathetic.

He didn’t have a “hellish death”. If I make it til 87 I hope I go by having a heart attack. There are much worse ways to go at a ripe old age.

Fuck sake, I swear to god this op is on a fucking wind up!!

@Sootyandsweep2019

I'm not Anne Sacoolas's lawyer, but I don't believe she should return to the u.k and I'm glad the chances of her being .are to return is small.

You disgust me.

HTH.

The most depressing thing about this thread, is I suspect most of the people posting with a complete lack of compassion have children. The lack of critical thinking is unreal.

Plenty of people on mumsnet don't have kids. Maybe society as a whole just disagrees with you (like the judge). People are not required to agree with you. It has nothing to do with compassion. We won't start agreeing with you because you claim we don't have compassion if we have our own opinion. What on earth made you write that down? It sounds like something my teenage nephew would say.

The most depressing thing about this thread, is I suspect most of the people posting with a complete lack of compassion have children. The lack of critical thinking is unreal

The most depressing thing is that 30% of respondents are as dim as you are.

I thought the OP must've been related to the man in question- 'blameless life'- but her later posts reveal her to be a complete fucking weirdo.

I thought the OP must've been related to the man in question- 'blameless life'- but her later posts reveal her to be a complete fucking weirdo

Yep. This.

Well he didn’t live a blameless life. He drove when he was angry and he dragged a woman to her death and changed another woman’s life forever.

Not blameless no.

Her death was cruel and unnecessary. Her friend’s life has been cruelly changed forever.

His was not entirely unexpected at that age. And someone died in a far worse manner at his hands.

Yes it's tragic for all involved but no, I don't think a different sentence should have been passed. What message would that give to elderly drivers who, as it stands, can still drive without regular safety checks? It would be the same if it was, say, a promising athlete or lawyer who had committed manslaughter with a vehicle - it's very sad, and a waste, but it cannot be excused.

There's plenty of compassion on this thread. It's absolutely, positively dripping with compassion, for the victims of the crime.

You, on the other hand, have shown a lack of compassion for the victims in your determination to be right above all else.

When your opinion is only shared by two or three amongst hundreds, you don't need to label yourself "right" or "wrong" but it would be wise to apply the critical thinking you've mentioned. Which would indicate that you very clearly think very differently on this topic to the vast majority of people.

You know, listen to their opinions but agree to disagree. Instead of saying everyone who doesn't agree with you is lacking compassion and critical thinking.

Very odd.

didn’t do a single thing to ameliorate the suffering of those he (accidentally) ran over, and their families.

Well, I am going to speak here as the niece and the sister in law of 2 people who were taken by people who " had an accident" Both people I didn't know. My aunt before I was born and my BIL before I met my husband.

Both their families were left shattered and broken from their loved one being taken so soon. (both were in their early twenties) Both families asked the question over and over " Why our loved one?" "What would they be doing now?" " who would they have been" and the last one both my grandma and my MIL said to me was

"the guy who did it only got 5 months /6 months for killing 3 people (both "accidents" took the lives of 3 people)" Neither my MIL or my grandmother were vindictive people, but nor did either of them feel that justice had been served for their child.

My MIL said once she will never forget that night the police officers knocked on her door to tell her that her youngest had died together with his fiance and her best friend.

My father who is now in his late 70s still has nightmares at times recalling having to be the one to identify his sister and her fiance after the crash they passed in.

This is a life long sentence that is passed down to the families of those who are killed. A lifetime of Missing them of missing out of memories. Family members who will not know this person or not remember.

A prison sentence will not make this right. However not does the feeling that this person " walked away with no sense of remorse" (in the case of my aunt the driver tried to blame the bus driver who was also involved - proven wrong) However the prison sentence makes the families feel that at least their loved one was not insignificant.

Yes, it is punishment but I do not think that is a bad thing in situations like this. I feel the sentence was fair and I like many others have said do not feel that the fact he was old should get him a lighter sentence. To me this was deliberate he got in the car angry. That was a deliberate decision. Much like the thread the other day where a driver had got caught going through a red light yet doesn't feel any blame only annoyance at not having to take a course. It was a deliberate decision to make and there are consequences for this. To me, if your decision means you kill someone I believe you should go to prison for it.

For the families whose lives are forever changed due to this decision to get into the car again. They have only just started the mandatory sentence they got. It will last the rest of their lives.

Why was he driving at nearly 90?! Surely he knew he was a danger?

the 3 people who are saying a 50 something woman’s life is worth anything isn't a tragedy, that isn't the point. Of course, however sad, in most circumstances a 50 something year old dying after hit with a car isn't a tragedy or worth punishment A 50something year old who has gone in a shopping trip dragged under a car with force and dying suddenly and frightened in supermarket car park, ( which wasn’t what she expected that day going shopping, something we all do) , and is referred to as a normal thing to do by almost anyone I know ; is a horrible tragic end to a blameless life.

Of course I have sympathy for the family of the old man. Making the families of the victim and his sit through a trial, hadn’t they all suffered enough - but no he wanted his day in court did the old man.

Or instead of being obsessed with his day in court could of used the accident to change laws regarding retesting and older / 80+ drivers; which would have prevented many more people dying than subjecting this poor lady to a hellish death. Unfortunately, my approach, ( which would have undoubtedly saved more life, less carpark rage and less motorway exit entrances), is beyond the limited comprehension of some of the poster's posting.

But yes wormwood scrubs was a horribly place for this man to go, but it was his choice that lead him there, each and every choice was his and his victims had no say or choice whatsoever

@enko

Your post is beautifully written and heartbreaking all at once. I'm so sorry for the loss both families went through, how awful. I nearly died in a car accident two years ago and still can't let myself think about when my mum got the call from the hospital. The victims are so often forgotten as if they are ghosts but they are as real as ever to their loved ones. Your post goes to show that victims matter - present tense, not past.

@lemonprism. If driving at 85 years old (his age at the date of the offence) warrants being sent to Wormwood Scrubs then 85 year olds should be told that beforehand! It is not, for the moment, enshrined in law so it’s not really sufficient to imply he has only himself to blame and should be in prison just because he was driving when old.

I agree with the OP that heaping a second tragedy on top of a first one does good to no-one. None of this detracts from or minimises the heartache and unimaginable loss of those who died in the accident - but causing someone else suffering won’t help them, whereas a review of the driving laws, or the institution of safety features on cars might help stop others suffering similarly.

@JustASmallTownCurl

Thank you and pleased you are ok and here to give your mum a hug. and yes very much like you said the victims' matter.

If driving at 85 years old (his age at the date of the offence) warrants being sent to Wormwood Scrubs then 85 year olds should be told that beforehand! It is not, for the moment, enshrined in law so it’s not really sufficient to imply he has only himself to blame and should be in prison just because he was driving when old

He wasn't sent to prison for driving at 85 years old...he was sent to prison because he killed somebody. He does have "only himself to blame" by his choice to get in the car and drive it. He did have a safety feature the same one all cars have....it's called a brake pedal which he didn't use whilst reversing at almost 20mph.

We lost a young, vibrant, kind wonderful family member because a man nearly 90 caused a car accident. As tragic as it is we appealed for him NOT to go to prison. The pain in sweet old mans face was indescribable. He wrote letters constantly and prayed every night that he wished that the Lord take him and not the young man’

He died shortly after and I think the guilt made him die from a broken heart.

Anyone who thinks this man should’ve gone to prison are very wrong IMVHO .. they’ll be in prison in their minds and hearts .. and to put a nearly 90 year old incarceration isn’t going to give a sane compassions person any sense of ‘justice’ and won’t bring the loved one back.

A case of NO WINNERS.

Ps. I strongly believe in the justice system when a crime is committed intentionally. Obviously this isn’t the case.

Did you even read the story OP he ran over that woman and kept going, knew he'd hit something or someone but didn't press the brake. He caused that woman to die, it's here family I feel sorry for.
Also agree at a certain age 70 80 etc should have a proper re test to check how they respond in certain ways.
You op said he didn't set out to kill someone, that's why its manslaughter. Totally agree with the judge. If it had been your mum or daughter bet you'd being saying something different.

I disagree at 87 years old he should know better than get behind the wheel of a dangerous weapon despite illness or pride.

He sounds like he was an accident waiting to happen, lied about the incident and showed no remorse. Of course he should have been jailed.

What if this was a 25 year old that killed a 23 year old? Should they not do the time due to lack of life experience or any illnesses they have? Where does it end?

The judge was spot on and it's about time the hammer of justice was used properly.

I’m sorry, I read the article before replying because there Are very 1 sided statements.

Depending what article you read, it’s a then 86 year old drives into bollard. Gets out, gets angry. Reverses at max speed, missing children as a dad pulled them out of the way, then hit 2 women. 1 died and the other has life changing injuries.

Accident I’m sure it was, but I still believe that justice needed to be served. Would you have said same if it was your family members?
What if he had run over the kids, would you still feel the same?

I mean it’s terrible he died, but we have laws to give retribution and justice.

He was 87. How old was the person he killed? They didn’t get a second chance. The 87 year old presumably had quite a few more years than the victim.

Death by dangerous driving