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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this is unreasonable and this judge knowingly scentenced this man to death

866 replies

Sootyandsweep2019 · 29/12/2019 10:07

Just read a heartbreaking story in the paper about an 87 year old man, who given a 27 month prison sentence after he killed someone in a car accident. The judge was warned at the time by the man's doctors that this was highly likely to lead to his death; but went ahead and did it anyway. As predicted, he died nine days later. This was not murder, this was not malicious; it was a complete, tragic accident.

By all means ban him from driving if he was a danger, look at tightening the driving regulations around older drivers.

But our obsession with "making people pay," for genuine accidents has led to this utter tragedy .

The poor man must have been terrified. I really think this particular judge/ case needs urgent investigation; and we need a wider look at whether prison is always an appropriate response to car accident s like this.

Sadly I don't expect the judge/ CPS/ solicitors etc. Feel guilty at all.

OP posts:
Tutlefru · 30/12/2019 13:19

YABU.

TooManyPaws · 30/12/2019 13:43

My aunt was a dreadful driver in her 80s and my father and I were about to bring it to the authorities' attention when she caused a collision. Luckily no one was hurt but the fiscal gave her the choice of handing in her licence or being prosecuted. We felt guilty that we hadn't acted earlier. You do have the opportunity to report elderly drivers that you consider dangerous.

PatchworkElmer · 30/12/2019 13:49

@Loopdaloops that happened near us, absolutely awful. What a terrible thing to have witnessed. And as you say, poor girl and her poor family.

Original poster
Sootyandsweep2019 · 30/12/2019 14:58

To the people who are saying an 87 year old dying isn't a tragedy, that isn't the point. Of course, however sad, in most circumstances an 87 year old dying isn't a tragedy. An 87 year old who has made a mistake, carted off in a prison van and dying alone and frightened in Wormwood Scrubs, ( which is not a low security open prison), and is referred to as a hell hole by almost anyone I know who has actually been there; is a horrible tragic end to a blameless life.

Of course I have sympathy for the victims. Making the man who made a mistake die on frightening and hellish conditions didn't bring her back, it's just heaped one tragedy on top of another.

Or instead of being obsessed with punishment and retribution the government could of used the accident to change laws regarding retesting and older / 80+ drivers; which would have prevented many more people dying than subjecting this poor man to a hellish death ever would. Unfortunately, my approach, ( which would have undoubtedly saved more lives than the grim punishment for punishment's sake mindset on here ), is beyond the limited comprehension of some of the poster's posting.

But yes wormwood scrubs was a horribly pla e for this man to die due to a mistake.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sootyandsweep2019 · 30/12/2019 15:02

And on that point r.e. Anne soccales ; changing the law to require driving on the left on U.S /foreign based would probably prevent far more tragic accidents than separating her from her family over a genuine lapse in concentration.

And surely, for everyone involved, analysing accidents to prevent future reoccurances would be far better use of everyone's time than hounding the individual s involved.

OP posts:
HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 30/12/2019 15:07

He had already hit a bollard
He then reversed at 19mph and nearly hit a man and child who luckily managed to get out of the way, he continued reversing and hit the two women and dragging them with his car. He reversed at 19mph for 100 feet. The lady who survived suffered life changing injuries.

If it takes you 100 feet to move your foot from the accelerator to the brake at 19mph then you should not be driving. This man had made no attempt to brake as the bollard eventually stopped him.

This, he didn’t even have the decency to then apologise to the dead persons family or the person who different life changing injuries!!!

I feel for the family, he killed and seriously injured another and potentially could ave injured another individual and their child, however due to their quick reflexes they remained unhurt

GiveHerHellFromUs · 30/12/2019 15:09

An 87 year old who has made a mistake, carted off in a prison van and dying alone and frightened in Wormwood Scrubs, ( which is not a low security open prison), and is referred to as a hell hole by almost anyone I know who has actually been there;

How many people do you know who have been there? Do you have lots of friends who 'didn't do it'?

You're still missing the point somewhat. It wasn't a simple accident.

He also pleaded guilty. Which means he wasn't innocent and he knew he'd go to prison. Because he deserved to.

Surely they can still use his example to change laws even with him being imprisoned/dead.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 30/12/2019 15:13

An 87 year old who has made a mistake

He didn’t make a “mistake” his numerous actions and dangerous driving cause the death of one person and another to have serious life changing injuries!

From that logic, majority of criminals make mistakes and they had no intent to go out and end someone’s lives, of course the above would be murder, however this man, irregardless of his age killed someone!!!

Original poster
Sootyandsweep2019 · 30/12/2019 15:14

SErmc onsidering his solicitor described the sentence as "manifestly excessive," and asked for him to be released on bail whilst a appeal was made I don't think there was any "given," or "certainty," he would go.

OP posts:
HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 30/12/2019 15:15

what should the courts have done, paid for his nursing home and giving him a life of luxury Hmm

He didn’t even have the decency to apologise to their families involved, he also pleaded guilty, by his own admission he knew his actions were wrong!!!

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 30/12/2019 15:18

SErmc onsidering his solicitor described the sentence as "manifestly excessive," and asked for him to be released on bail whilst a appeal was made

His lawyers opinion is either here nor there, it’s like asking the public to determined a sentence and not that of the judge Hmm

GiveHerHellFromUs · 30/12/2019 15:20

His lawyers job is to keep him out of prison. The judges job is to sentence people appropriately for the crimes they commit.

Original poster
Sootyandsweep2019 · 30/12/2019 15:23

The most depressing thing about this thread, is I suspect most of the people posting with a complete lack of compassion have children. The lack of critical thinking is unreal.

OP posts:
iklboo · 30/12/2019 15:28

Pot. Kettle. Black.

OrangeSlices998 · 30/12/2019 15:29

The most shocking thing actually is that you think the elderly man who caused death and injuries by dangerous driving was somehow the victim here.

Bluerussian · 30/12/2019 15:30

Well he did show remorse, I googled yesterday and found that out but, before trial, he wouldn't have been allowed to express anything. People involved in accidents are told not to contact eachother.

It seems a bit pointless to be arguing now the man is dead. It's over.

I hope there is not another, similar, case but if there is perhaps the judge will be mindful of this case and when sentencing, an open prison like Ford will be considered, certainly not the Scrubs.

Tistheseason17 · 30/12/2019 15:31

Oh, just give it up, OP. You have about 2 other people who are agreeing with you and posting.

The rest of us do not agree with your views on no penal punishment for a man who killed one woman and injured another whilst very angry in his car. Bet you would not feel the same had they been 25 yrs old. And you sympathise with a US woman who killed a young man and hope she does not get sent back to the UK to face dangerous driving charges because, in your view, it was just an accident.

OP - have you had an accident that injured someone else badly? Is this why you are looking for some sort of support to justify your own action? You are looking in the wrong place.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 30/12/2019 15:34

I don't think the law should make acceptances for age and health in this case. He sounds absolutely without remorse.

I have an 80 year old relative. Widowed, depressed, multiple health issues, numerous medications. They should not be driving, they're just not safe. If they hurt someone I hope they go to prison.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 30/12/2019 15:35

I suspect most of the people posting with a complete lack of compassion have children

Do you expect us to feel sorry for him? If an 87 year old man killed my child I'd want them sent to prison, and if my 85 year old nan chose to get behind the wheel and then killed someone by being negligent I'd accept that she needed to be punished in line with the law too.

trappedsincesundaymorn · 30/12/2019 15:38

OP you seem to be more sympathetic towards a convicted man dying in prison than an innocent woman dying underneath a car in a car park, why is that? Since when does the guilty trump the innocent?

BoneyBackJefferson · 30/12/2019 15:41

Sootyandsweep2019

The more you post the more I think that you are in this for shits and giggles.

HoopDeDoop · 30/12/2019 15:47

*Selene28 - but he didn't have any genuine intention to kill at all. What was the purpose of locking him up ?
*
Genuine intention to kill is not the test for guilt for any offence that arises from death following a car accident

We need an urgent look at whether prison is always the right outcome for car accidents like this

It's not always the right outcome, nor is it always used as the sentence. There is a huge amount of sentencing council guidance on when it is appropriate.

You don't understand the criminal law or sentencing provisions, which is fine, why should you unless it's your profession? But why not come here and ask some questions and inform yourself before you come to your conclusions?

blubelle7 · 30/12/2019 15:50

Wow just wow and now Anne Soccales who killed an innocent 17 year old boy must now also be spared jail. Wow OP for someone accusing people of callousness you take the cup, seeing as you are defending the actions of people who actually killed innocent bystanders going about their business.

And people continuing to disagree with you point after point you make does not mean they have limited comprehension but that perhaps your argument is lacking in merit. However I'm sure it is easy for you to pretend everyone else is stupid.

He certainly deserved everything he got and more.

could have not of

CareOfPunts · 30/12/2019 15:51

I suspect most of the people posting with a complete lack of compassion have children

What’s that got to with anything?

I have plenty of compassion. For the victims and their families. I have none for the man who killed and maimed them.

Dontdisturbmenow · 30/12/2019 15:52

You're very naive OP. Your view is that no-one should be punished, despite the hurt and pain they cause, because it doesn't do them any good, and it's better instead to change the law.

Can't you see that we would be constantly changing the laws to accommodate all the mistakes people all the time that result in loss and pain and suffering?

Where do you draw the line? No-one ever punished for anything they do as a result of negligence? Or punished but at a much lesser level than the damaged they caused, in this case, death?