Force 5 year old or not?

[Donkeykong2019]

My DD is 5. She has always been very anxious about new places and a nightmare in places like shops and supermarkets. Over the past few months she has increasingly been verbalising she just wants to stay home. Getting her to school is a daily battle. Anywhere where she doesn't know exactly what is there or what we are doing etc is a nightmare. Even getting out to parks now she is refusing. Weekend before Christmas I cancelled seeing Santa because she demanded all the details and didn't want to go and got v.upset

I'm constantly conflicted over whether or not I should be forcing her to go to them? Part of the problem is I'm on my own with two of them and she is a runner-off and she's getting too big for me to manhandle when she kicks off. Part of the problem is when we stay home all day and do nothing she is the calmest, most pleasant child and I hate how she flips when we have to go anywhere.

Half the family are criticising me for pandering to it all the day but I don't know what else to do?

Aibu to not be forcing her? She can't want to stay indoors forever right?

It sounds like she could be very anxious about things being unpredictable when you are out and being in the house is secure, she knows that nothing unplanned in her head is going to happen.
I think forcing her will make the anxiety worse, maybe try little outings and keep them very short and build up from there.
I would also speak to school to see if she is having any problems or showing signs of anxiety there.

Have school said anything?

She sounds very anxious or possibly may have ASD.

If she is anxious the best thing to do is take her out little and often. With a clear plan in place so she faces her fear with some element of control.

ASD would need a lot of pre explaining before going out. Giving her a clear timeline of events and exactly what will be happening. Too much forced going out could be overwhelming for her.

No definitely don't force. That will have the opposite effect. I would seek some professional help with this she sounds very anxious.
Try talking through step by step what is happening.

You do sound as though you need professional help, especially as you say you have two DC.

Staying in a lot is not fair on the other one.

DS 8 gets very anxious if he's out of his routine and doesn't know what's going to happen next. In his case it's part of ADHD.

Don't force her to do anything apart from things that she absolutely has to do, like go to school. DS takes his Bear everywhere, which helps, does she have anything like this?

I've been trying to access professional help and failing.

So far this holidays out of 8 days other than going to grandparents house where she doesn't go out either she has spent 7 out of 8 of them in. The remaining day was 4 hours driving in the car to get there and for her to be utterly distraught and my mum made me take her back home again so another 4 hours in the car!

Girls with autism, ADHD and sensory issues are hard at first to diagnose.
I'm a mum with an ASD, SPD boy. I realised very early on what his issues are.
Girls are different. A friend has had her daughter diagnosed with autism and it took her a long time to not only see the behaviours, but she also ignored the behaviour and put it down to 'naughtiness' and also anxiety.
Do not force your child into anything. Ask your school what they're seeing, get a paediatrician to see her and start getting the process in order.
She may have sensory issues. She may have other diagnoses. She does not need to be forced to do activities . She is actively telling you what she needs in a way that five year olds can. Listen to her and ignore people telling you to stop pandering.

Sounds v.difficult . Forcing people to do things that scare them rarely helps though. My DD is a little like this and routine really helps her e.g. if she goes swimming every week at the same time she's ok, but miss a couple of weeks and she freaks out again. Therefore the Christmas period is hard for DC like this. Meeting Santa is hardly a treat if you're terrified and it's not a necessity - definitely knock things like that on the head!

Do you know other parents with DC the same age? Just wondering if you could host playdates while they take the other aged ones out.

A book that has helped us is '10 days to a less defiant child' as it explains really well how anxiety turns into defiance.

Teachermaths has it spot on. There is an underlying reason for this, especially given your last update.

I meant to add that that book has a really good chapter on how to deal with extended family giving unhelpful advice.

This was me as a child and still is.

It is anxiety and I've found it very debilitating and still do. I really have to force myself to go to a lot of things even if I do really want to go.

I was forced as a child and it didn't help anything, I don't know the answer though. I'd try and get her some help.

I would go to the gp and ask for a referral to a paediatrian to explore the possibility of an ASC. My DS, now 11, requires the same level of fine detail in advance of going anywhere, as do I. We both have ASC.

There’s definitely something going on here.

I also wondered about ASD - particularly because her anxiety is so extreme and it’s only alleviated by knowing in advance what to expect.

I think you need to speak to school and ask them to get their SENCO involved. She must be having issues during the school day too? Have you spoken to your GP as well?

Sounds really hard. What have you tried so far?

I suggest a simple visual timetable for school days with a picture and word for each "step" of the day and buying her a time teaching watch. Make tick-off style visual lists for getting ready for school or a diagram of the finished result of what needs to happen e.g. a picture of her in full school uniform with bag.

Could you agree to walk in with one of her friends if that would help too?

My son is 11 for a brief time when his dad left he could mask long enough for us to go out but holidays are hell because it's not home new places are a nightmare we end up with family passes going to the same place on repeat just to leave the house

Ds gets very anxious about going to new places, school was an absolute minefield
Particularly anything out of the ordinary, so something like christmas jumper day can have him in a tail spin.

He’d happily stay at at home all day everyday, but It’s not good for him, he had got better with some things and as hes grown up it’s got better.

There were some things where I did force him to go and some where I let him decide. He would and still does build things up in his head and by not forcing him to go I sometimes felt I was reinforcing that idea.
Often when he met his anxiety he would have a sense of pride which helped him when he next felt anxious.

We used a book called what to do when you worry to much, it was too old for him but I was able to use the ideas to support him.

Also the school helped when he was in reception and he had an ELSA

I think you need to investigate ASD.

You could try using social stories to help her know what to expect from different outings. I would avoid things that make her completely distraught but don't give up completely on things that push her a little out of her comfort zone. Time and patience will help her learn to deal with it. It needs to be managed though so it's not beyond either of your ability to cope.

Agree that it sounds like there's some underlying issue going on. Am a Mum of an ASD child and also wondered if she might be on spectrum...

Is there a particular set of circumstances that tend to trigger issues?
E.g. specific noises, bright light, smells?

We've had a lot of success helping DS with anxiety by using social stories. It's the fear of the unknown that triggers the anxiety and social stories help reduce the unexpected. Even if she is not ASD, this might be a useful technique.

Either anxiety or ASD. My DD 14 has both, and she hasn’t been out except for school and family things since March. If she’s like mine it won’t change, unfortunately, unless she gets professional help.

Neurotypical DS10 used to be very resistant to going out unless it was on his terms (still is a bit). By on his terms, I mean the time of day that worked for him - between brek and lunch - and the location. He liked going to particular places where he knew the drill, that were nearby and that weren’t crowded or too noisy. The library featured a lot but I also insisted on fresh air and exercise. Paid a bloody fortune to go to a health club swimming club rather than the local pool because it was so much quieter and more manageable with changing/showering!
SN concerns aside, this would be my priority in your situation - is DD and her sibling getting a good daily run around and heart rates up? Must be hard if she’s so unhappy out of the house.

She has been going into school late and finishing early but school are ending it in January and want her in on time everyday.

She is somewhat in the ASD process but I don't think she meets the social communication defeceit side of it!

I can't put my finger on specifics but there's definitely something about supermarkets and the shopping centre and shops in general. There is also definitely something about not knowing every fine detail.

It's exhausting and I do worry about ds

All people with ASD are different, DH, eldest DD and DS are on the spectrum and i have a strong suspicion my youngest dd is but has masked very well.
Crowded noisy places are an issue with all of them, too much sensory overload.
What do you mean by the social communication defeceit?

It sounds like school/you are on the ball re ASD diagnosis.

What makes you think she doesn't meet the social/conversation side? She's clearly incredibly anxious about social situations. Girls tend to mask the social side better than boys.

Social stories are brilliant. Short controllable trips with visual time lines would be my starting point. Even if it's just a walk to the end of the road, then walk to the park. Try to avoid interactions with other people to begin with. Cinema can be a good trip unless the loudness overwhelms her. Every step of the cinema process is explainable and predictable.

Supermarkets would generally tend towards sensory overload.
It's a long journey, my daughter's 22yrs old and has always been like this. She's been through CAMHS and her school and uni were supportive. There's quite a lot of it about.
Sorry to not be much more help but things you can try are:
Pets- some kids in my network really benefit from having a dog. Some v much not.
Outdoor activities
Sports esp outdoor.
Staying away from supermarkets and shopping centres.
Long walks
Fields / meadows / woodland. Stately home gardens.
Known cafes and restaurants
School
Home
Some children ok with swimming pools some not so much.

Also:
It could be connected to breakup. Sorry to say and it took me a long time to accept that in my case. Can be caused by trauma of breakup.

Try private counselling (£70 per hour where I am) it's no guarantee and only works while in practice. Unfortunately there's no cure and medical professionals get miffed when you suggest cure.

Well I've been looking at the tried of impairments and I'm fairly sure it's only the one she comes under. I think socially and communication wise she is fine.

I keep trying to access help but help always focuses on me as a parent rather than perhaps what is going on for her (if that makes sense?) I know all the techniques and they work a dream on my younger one but hers seems more deep rooted.