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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think many mental health professionals are needlessly unpleasant? - TW suicide

94 replies

InThisGarden · 27/12/2019 15:55

Post provoked by recent suicide of friend.
I know she experienced this, as have I; we talked about it within a week of her passing.

They treated her, and me, as if we were worthless.
I'm not talking about lack of services or funding. I'm talking about seeing the person in front of them as a person, deserving of kindness and compassion, not scorn and punitive treatment.

So many people end up in mental health services as a result of abysmal experiences at the hands of others - why do so many professionals then stick the boot in further? Treat people as a burden?

Why can't they be like my GP, who explained, regretfully, there are no services, but treated me kindly?
They seem to project everything onto the patient; preferring to imply the person is an attention seeker or undeserving, or otherwise at fault so not allowed services.

AIBU to think it's cruel and completely unnecessary?

To the good 'uns out there - are you allowed to tell patients there are no services? Or is there something else I'm missing?

OP posts:

Butterflyflower1234 · 27/12/2019 16:00

I'm so sorry for your friends struggle. I lost my DH to suicide so I understand how very hard it is.

I think people want to help but they are so stretch with the service that they lose sight.

There are some amazing charities out there such as Mind, Samaritans and The Calm Zone who can provide excellent service.

I hope you're able to find the right support you need. Be kind to yourself x

VanyaHargreeves · 27/12/2019 16:03

YANBU - but I don't know what the answer is other than secondary mental health services desperately need more money, and those who work in them know they have no option but to fail patients through no fault of their own because their workload and the pressure the entire system is under

That said, a friend of mine is currently mental unwell and we are developing a complaint due to a personal verbal attack that was made in her character without cause.

Every profession has its rotten apples and this individual is not a prime example of their colleagues a whole.

LakieLady · 27/12/2019 16:06

I think that as services have become more stretched, MH professionals have had to make very tough choices when it comes to prioritising clients.

It seems almost impossible (in my area, at least) to get any input unless the client is psychotic, or non-compliant with medication and having depot injections.

I also think constantly seeing only people who are desperately unwell may desensitise them a bit.

Aworldofmyown · 27/12/2019 16:11

Our experience of staff in mental health units is shocking. Sadly the ones local to me are not fit for purpose.

Original poster

InThisGarden · 27/12/2019 16:13

Vanya those who work in them know they have no option but to fail patients

So it's more a case of they HAVE to make out the patient doesn't need help, rather than admit they do but a service cannot be provided?

This is what I don't understand. No service due to no funding makes sense, but surely staff could still say, yes this person needs xyz, but we have no facilities to provide it? Then the ire would be directed higher up rather than punishing those already struggling by making out they're undeserving...

OP posts:

FruitcakeOfHate · 27/12/2019 16:17

YANBU. I always make sure to send compliments to those who treat me and my son well. I get their full names and thank them and then ask to whom I can direct my compliments.

Howmanysleepsnow · 27/12/2019 16:21

We can tell people there are no services. Unfortunately some staff do see suicide attempts as a cry for help/ attention rather than an act of intent or desperation, particularly when multiple attempts have been made. This is wrong.

AliceAbsolum · 27/12/2019 16:22

I am a MH professional and an ex service user. I have been treated absolutely appalling by staff. People have said things to me I wouldn't even dream of saying to others.
Now I am on the other side I treat people with kindness and respect and I have no idea why its so difficult.

Staff used to roll their eyes at me when I was crying. I was 19 and had been abused...I don't even... What? Why. Its awful.

SilverDragonfly1 · 27/12/2019 16:22

They can be very thoughtless- perhaps on occasion it is because they see people in such extreme crisis regularly. Please, if you work in any aspect of mental health never belittle people's lifelong illnesses by telling them to cheer up, pull themselves together, count their blessings or saying anything that could be interpreted that way!

I believe that if you wouldn't say it to someone with a serious and potentially terminal physical health condition, don't say it to someone with an equally debilitating mental health condition.

bilbodog · 27/12/2019 16:25

I agree with you. When we had to deal with mental health services a few years ago whilst trying to help someone it was so frustrating - it would have helped tremendously if they had admitted they were unable to help more because the funding, staff and facilities were just not available instead of skirting around the issues!

AutumnRose1 · 27/12/2019 16:27

"They seem to project everything onto the patient; preferring to imply the person is an attention seeker or undeserving, or otherwise at fault so not allowed services."

I'm sorry to hear this. I've been in treatment for years and most people have been fab. What are they saying? I do think that health professionals are under horrendous strain themselves.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/12/2019 16:27

You have my sympathy. We list MIL this way. She had a progressive illness, a history of suicide attempts and had expressed a desire to die just before she did.

Her GP was distraught (as we came to find out after the inquest) but, like us, were totally impotent, unable to make the under resourced behemoth that is the NHS Mental Health resources move in time to help.

We had to learn to accept that her actions were determined and nobody else (not even the gobshite she was married to) were to blame.

VanyaHargreeves · 27/12/2019 16:30

So it's more a case of they HAVE to make out the patient doesn't need help, rather than admit they do but a service cannot be provided?

Exactly so I'm afraid. Say the area is for arguments sake York. Your friend is in York.

Suppose that there are exactly 40 inpatient adult acute beds available in York.

These are full.

There are also 40 beds in Leeds that York can use in an emergency.

Also full.

There is no one eligible for discharge. People are waiting on Care Planning, Accommodation, Funding etc

Your friend is patient 81.

So they can say "We have no beds, and there are people with higher need so we will treat you at Home with Crisis team"

Crisis team pop by for exactly half an hour and ask if you "have any thoughts of self harm" you'll see them again tomorrow, maybe, if they remember and aren't called away.

If you still really need a bed they will start contacting any Trust with a bed and your Yorkshire friend could find themselves in Birmingham or on the South Coast until they can be moved home.

That is the current state of inpatient MH services in Britain today.

RuffleCrow · 27/12/2019 16:32

It's a mixed bag.

VanyaHargreeves · 27/12/2019 16:35

Also disclaimer : I am aware that I have oversimplified, before someone comes along to WELL, ACTUALLY me.

Lifeisabeach09 · 27/12/2019 16:46

I agree with you, OP.
I do feel that with under-resources and rising health needs (mental or physical), staff are burning out--fast. No excuse though.

doublebarrellednurse · 27/12/2019 16:49

I'll say right from the start I am a MH nurse and someone still very passionate about my job. In the last 5 years particularly it's become very very tough. I consider myself "one of the good ones" but I'm sure not everyone I've been involved with professionally would agree or understand the decisions I've had to make.

Most of the people I work with (as in colleagues) have their own mental health problems because of this and are burnt out. I've come close myself at times but have been lucky to have an exceptional boss. I'm now not really client facing so am less likely to be burnt out.

The front line see a lot of people take the piss. They are put under increasing pressure and it's very very easy to start looking for reasons to move someone down the priority list. A lot of the supervision I give staff is around empowering them to not lose compassion and not burn out. It means I have to robustly ring fence their time, defend them, care for my team so they can care for others. I recognise though I'm in a position to do it and not all people in management are able to, trained to, or have the resource too.

To the good 'uns out there - are you allowed to tell patients there are no services? Or is there something else I'm missing?

My team do. We are honest about limitations from the start and will advocate for people to access what they can. Sadly expectations are high and resources low. My staff receive abuse daily. I do as well. For not living up to expectations.

A good team know what they can and can't do and are honest about those limitations imo. I think some trusts are peddling a lot to even provide the basics and frankly it can be embarrassing and devastating when faced with a desperate person or their family and not be able to do a damn thing.

x2boys · 27/12/2019 16:52

Some are I used to be a mental nurse ,there is definitely a,hierarchy of conditions that SOME staff have more for want of a better word less sympathy for ,alcohol.and drug addictions seemed to warrant the least sympathy followed by.people with personality disorders ,I saw this when when working on acute mental health wards I'm not sure why this is.

doublebarrellednurse · 27/12/2019 16:56

@x2boys I completely agree. I work specifically with people with personality disorder (mostly women and cluster b) and the reaction I get when I tell people this, other professionals, is very telling of their prejudice.

VanyaHargreeves · 27/12/2019 16:58

I have also seen examples of a hierarchy approach x2boys

A sort of deserving unwell vs you just need to sort yourself out type thing

x2boys · 27/12/2019 17:04

Yes this prejudice needs to be stamped out @doublebarrellednurse it seems ingrained in some staff .

FruitcakeOfHate · 27/12/2019 17:42

We were told flat out there were no services, our HCP even tried to source them in the nearest city but due to postcode restrictions we were not allowed to access them. We ended up taking our child abroad for treatment but were very lucky in that there was the ability to do so.

I do believe there is a hierarchy. My MH issues are caused by having lost a child and having another with autism, ADHD and OCD. I have found in comparing with others we were generally treated more sympathetically (also no addiction issues), as I guess it was all seen as not being our fault (is it ever?).

Danni12 · 27/12/2019 17:58

I am so sorry about your loss
I think it's a very mixed bag with some excellent, compassionate professionals and others who are dismissive and see "attention seeking" and "choice" behaviour rather than understanding that what they are seeing is someone experiencing a mental health crisis....
Mental health should be viewed with the same parity as physical health. Patients should receive the same care, compassion and kindness regardless of whether the health issue is a mental health issue or a physical health issue. After all, how can you separate mind and body??

StylishMummy · 27/12/2019 18:34

This is saddening to read but what about the 1000s of people who do take the piss?

People who want to be signed off sick from seeking work
People who want to access additional benefits with a 'diagnosis'
People who think it's trendy to have a mental health issue
Asylum seekers who say they're suicidal as they know it strengthens their case to stay

I've had PND & PTSD and was treated well and with compassion but I was open to the treatments being suggested and followed the guidance given by mental health practitioners. Not many do!

Original poster

InThisGarden · 27/12/2019 21:05

StylishMummy I'm not convinced there's thousands of people taking the piss.
Anyway, the sort of cases I'm talking about are where the person is clearly not ok, often with an abuse history, yet treated horribly. It's almost as if the more understandable their issues are, the worse they're treated.

OP posts:

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