To think many mental health professionals are needlessly unpleasant? - TW suicide

[InThisGarden]

Post provoked by recent suicide of friend.
I know she experienced this, as have I; we talked about it within a week of her passing.

They treated her, and me, as if we were worthless.
I'm not talking about lack of services or funding. I'm talking about seeing the person in front of them as a person, deserving of kindness and compassion, not scorn and punitive treatment.

So many people end up in mental health services as a result of abysmal experiences at the hands of others - why do so many professionals then stick the boot in further? Treat people as a burden?

Why can't they be like my GP, who explained, regretfully, there are no services, but treated me kindly?
They seem to project everything onto the patient; preferring to imply the person is an attention seeker or undeserving, or otherwise at fault so not allowed services.

AIBU to think it's cruel and completely unnecessary?

To the good 'uns out there - are you allowed to tell patients there are no services? Or is there something else I'm missing?

That sort of whatabouttery largely lacks a basis in fact.

It is INCREDIBLY difficult to get referred to outpatient consultant to obtain a diagnosis and difficult yet more still to fall into the category that gets extra funding, generally, for mental health issues.

Additionally the change from DLA to PIP has made it harder for ALL disabled people to get benefits/financial support as it is no longer based on merely having a disability/diagnosis or the old fashioned expression "registered disabled"

It is now based on how that disability affects your day to day life and how self sufficient you are. This is how and why there was a massive wave of amputees and Paralympians who lost their Motability component because it's a point based system now and they didn't have the criteria, they were disabled still sure, but no longer, according to ATOS "disabled enough"

Lack of quality supervision, pressure from managers, burn out. Most people in helping professions went into it because they cared. Taking on endless emotional suffering of others and having no output leads to a lack of empathy and othering instead of caring like they once did.

Well I think they should be in court for something like "manslaughter via neglect".

Personally i think its complicated by the complex relationship we have with our mental health.
If you look at the recent "why dont people like psychiatrists" thread there is lots of discussion about the over medicalisation of mental health which i think is true but personally i find that drive comes from society as a whole rather than professionals.

We are very used to using a medical model and theres a focus on diagnosis, medication and hospital ( especially from people who use services) but actually a society wide approach is needed.

Its a bit like weight loss, a good doctor can guide you through it and point you in the right direction but a holistic approach is needed

There is no room for heartlessness or cruelty, however, it would be good to know more as helping somebody with mental health issues is not about feeding the feeling of helplessness. It’s about giving the person education and tools to find the answers but should be done professionally and with compassion.

I agree with you to some extent, Fallofrain, and it's horrendous to be stuck in the middle with services telling you there's nothing and friends dumping you unless you "get help" which they refuse to believe is unavailable (you can't even post on here without that happening). But if you need someone to have long in-depth chats unpicking trauma, where do you go apart from services?

Don t tar all mental health professionals with the same brush. I'm a CPN and always treat my patients like I would want to be treated.

Thing is @Spidey66 we both know that there is a faction of burn out and just generally wank MH professionals out there, just saying "we aren't all like it" doesn't solve anything at all. Reflection on our practice and how others experience it is pretty core to what we do surely? Also how you would want to be treated may not be how your service user wants to be treated if that makes sense.

I don't think anyone genuinely thinks that their experience is indicative of every professional out there but their experience does reflect on all of us.

Spidey66
The thread title says "many" mental health professionals, not all. I've also addressed part of my post "to the good 'uns out there".

I like to be treated in a way that includes actually taking in what I say, rather than your own biased interpretation. Evidence suggests you need to improve in this area.

High time, I think, that mental health services were de medicalised and removed from the NHS. The current system is so byzantine and wasteful that it pretty much guarantees that most people will receive a piss poor service. GPs only have a limited range of poor quality services to refer people to and you know that you’ll be waiting months, if not years, to get help.

For instance, DD had a referral to CAMHS outstanding for 14 months a couple of years ago. At the end of that period I had a call from CAMHS asking if she still wanted help as they were updating their lists! In my world that’s called battlefield triage; they were essentially seeing who dies first as a tie breaker to decide who got a service.

The answer is really simple in my view; personalised budgets in mental health. This would allow people who know what helps them to spot purchase support on a cost effective basis. It’ll never happen as the whole MH system revolves around very highly paid clinicians who only believe in medication or psychologists/psychotherapists who seem to believe that only their own commissioned service is able to help people. Spot purchase of non NHS support is just none existent from what I’ve seen, even though it would often be far more cost effective. The medical establishment will fight like buggery against that though because they have a strong vested interests in the status quo.

I’ve encountered a lot of MH professionals in both work and personal contexts and while many are decent enough people struggling with limited resource, others are just turds. Burn out is real enough, but if you get to the point where you are treating vulnerable people like shit because of it then GTFO of the profession because you’re part of the problem not the solution.

Just to clarify, the answer to the mental health commissioning conundrum is not just to remove non acute services from the NHS but to get rid of block contracts for them altogether. Third sector services can be just as egregious about on that basis as they have a vested interest in keeping bums on seats in their day services, which can in themselves be incredibly depressing places to be.

My job involves working with teenagers who have had largely awful upbringings and we refer them to mental health services. Unfortunately, the majority I’ve dealt with make me scratch my head and wonder why the hell they opted to work with vulnerable children in the first place. It’s the same with a lot of social workers I’ve worked with. No compassion, no warmth, no common sense.

This is saddening to read but what about the 1000s of people who do take the piss?
I don't believe they do. Why would people burden themself to put up with a service that is truly demoralising.
I believe some of the professionals believe they do and unfortunately treat patients with it in mind.

The problem in any workplace that is under extreme pressure is that the good staff have professional standards, they know they are letting patients down and that bad decisions have real consequenses. It tales a personal toll.
Working with vulnerable people can attract the sort of person who should not be working with vulnerable people. If you add one or two bad staff to the mix it makes the good staff disgusted, and if they cant change things then they leave top preserve their own integrity and mental health.
You can then easily end up with a majority bad culture. Once you get there its extremely difficult to change the workplace culture and that's if you have the will and the funding.

I work as a therapist in MH

We work as a team and yes some people I work with (particularly in the larger mh facilities) some of the staff do lack compassion but the majority don’t but in a team you do need different approaches to patients but everyone should be able to empathize.

Also much of the work isn’t about the patients/residents getting better it’s about them being stable this is often very frustrating for them their being stable is still needing medication (most have side effects) and a lot of support from MH services which often they understandably want to break free from but find that they just can’t manage without that support- this is so conflicting for many people I work with and we often take the brunt of this frustration

So while I agree that some are not as compassionate as they should be I am quite sure there was a time they were (some never and you wonder why they work with people, but then I have met teachers who seem to dislike children and other therapists who find people boring)

We do take a lot of the brunt not just from patients sometimes from their families too and we can only give so much and after a days work I am often mentally drained

In my area, last week, a case was heard in court of a man who was caught viewing, in a public place, child abuse images. Of the worst category. Relevance? His "depression" was cited as the reason for him doing this (he had 1000s of images on his device in all categories) and his cpn said he must be allowed to go home and not held in custody after the preliminary hearing as a result and he is being seen weekly by mental health team. This was granted, because of his depression.

The woman who frequently spits in my face is seen by the same team as me. The man who has repeatedly assaulted me and follows and harasses me is seen by the same team as me.

In the case of the two i personally know the abuse (which apparently it is classed as) has escalated and got worse each time I stupidly reported it (don't bother now) as nothing can be done due to their illnesses. They openly taunt me, and other people, they are abusive to that their illness means they can do what they like. They're known to the police. They can do nothing.

I've been told my depression isn't illness. It's just thoughts, because I was fostered and that's also why I MUST be borderline because, supposedly, everyone knows foster parents are abusers in disguise because who'd want an unwanted kid otherwise. I've been accused of being responsible for people ending their lives by 'stealing services'. When I was placed on a 136 section I was told the police would arrest me for wasting their time as crisis team left, thankfully the officer was very kind and explained that wasn't the case (and put in a complaint about the staff).

The most stupid advice I was given was to contact a medium to find out who the voice I hear is, the consensus by this cpn was that it was my best friend who had ended her life. I never went and never heard the end of it until the shit retired.

I won't seek help now. I'm hurting too much and their "help" escalates my problems, I already know I'm worth nothing, well worse than nothing, given they're supporting those who abuse me. They can't help me as well you see, safeguarding said they must choose and it'll always be the most ill, even if the most ill are hurting you.

I've worked in the NHS. I live in a very rural area where 99% of other services have now closed.

There's no excuse for taking cuts out on patients, or more accurately here lying about cuts (they got a billion a year ago to improve the service and run a drop in which they refuse to do). Compared to other departments in my country mental health is positively rolling in resources - most departments are now closed or once a month. None are 24/7. Even emergencies now get stabilised and transferred down south.

It is difficult gearing people's problems, but if they can't cope they need to seek help elsewhere; not blame me.

I had three people very close to me end their lives within an 18 month period, not to mention others who died in the same period. Totally dismissive.

A close friend of mine has had extreme MH problems over the last couple of years so I've had quite a few dealings with MH professionals.

On the whole individuals have been great but the whole service is failing a lot of people with MH problems.

I have also come across a couple of individuals within the profession though whose attitude, quite frankly, shocked me.

Both times it was when my friend had gone missing after stating her intentions to kill herself, both times she was found by the police thankfully before she had succeeded (more by luck and timing rather than a "cry for help/wanting to be found" IYSWIM)

The lack of compassion and how they spoke to me on the phone was awful. On one occasion the police (who I had told of MH Teams response when I reported the friend missing) were equally shocked and said they would follow it up.

I get that MH professionals deal with these situations daily and may see things differently, but they should realise that this isn't the case for people whose nearest and dearest are at the lowest point in their lives and are faced with the harsh reality of someone who is suicidal.

I should have said before I'm being discharged from services as I don't meet their criteria anymore.

It’s about giving the person education and tools to find the answers but should be done professionally and with compassion.

Both DD and I have suffered post traumatic stress - I do not see what education and tools can help you to deal with the sight of a close relative, lying unconscious possibly dead (at first sight) with their blood all over the walls, carpets, their clothes and head?

ohmygod the police here are fantastic and I know they've complained about staff attitude, a friend of mine went through a similar thing and the staff were utterly dismissive. She'd been taken to hospital in the first place by the police and told to go home and she didn't. Long story short she was found eventually ok but the police put in a complaint about how it was handled by mental health team.

It isn't everyone, just a bit of kindness, compassion and honesty goes a long way and people forget that I think.

Becca19962014 I am sorry you have received such poor support it shouldn’t be this way

To other posters making comments about MH professionals being crazy or implying outside work they are not particularly nice people - that doesn’t mean they are unprofessional at work. If you tell people you work in MH (psychologist/CPN/ whatever) many people seem to subconsciously decide you are either trying to analyze them or will fix their problems. I switch off out of work, I know medical professionals who appear very cold and its questioned why they are nurses/GP’s we can only give so much. I can’t go round giving more to others apart from those I am closet to outside of work I have to look after myself too.

Judge them professionally but how they are outside of work might be completely different

I'm really sad to say that my experience of MH professionals in CAMHS has been soul destroying.

I can name individuals who have been truly fantastic but it is depressing how they stick out from the majority.

These individuals are dealing with the same work pressures as the others but do so with warmth, understanding and professionalism.

Just to illustrate: the cuts mean that my dd has been under 4 locum psychiatrists in 3 years. One of those was fantastic. He listened, built a relationship, tried to understand and offered what was available by way of help.

The other 3 were terse, unintetested , refused to liaise with other professionals. They alienated my dd and jeopardized her already extremely fragile wellbeing.

My sister made the decision to end her life in May. She had a cluster B personality disorder. She used services extensively, was an inpatient several times.
It's hard to know what else mental health services could have offered her. Her GP, her CPN and the crisis team all did their jobs.
I'm distraught about losing her, but I no longer fear the phone call telling me that she's dead.

I have worked in Mental health services and some staff were awful but most were great. You are entitled to use an advocacy service (I am now training to be an advocate) who can speak up for you and call out bad behaviour. We have no qualms in doing this.