To think many mental health professionals are needlessly unpleasant? - TW suicide

[InThisGarden]

Post provoked by recent suicide of friend.
I know she experienced this, as have I; we talked about it within a week of her passing.

They treated her, and me, as if we were worthless.
I'm not talking about lack of services or funding. I'm talking about seeing the person in front of them as a person, deserving of kindness and compassion, not scorn and punitive treatment.

So many people end up in mental health services as a result of abysmal experiences at the hands of others - why do so many professionals then stick the boot in further? Treat people as a burden?

Why can't they be like my GP, who explained, regretfully, there are no services, but treated me kindly?
They seem to project everything onto the patient; preferring to imply the person is an attention seeker or undeserving, or otherwise at fault so not allowed services.

AIBU to think it's cruel and completely unnecessary?

To the good 'uns out there - are you allowed to tell patients there are no services? Or is there something else I'm missing?

Mental.health services have always been known as the Cinderella services of the NHS and never had enough funding , , the cuts started way before conservatives got in i was redeployed twice in the space of 12 months between 2005 and 2006 due to cuts ,t t the trust I worked for would do ridiculous things with the funding they did get , like spend close on £1000,000 to refurbish wards than close them down less than a year later,no.one was even held accountable for those decisions

Very long term MH struggler here.

I’ve been appalled by some of the treatment I had...

• I asked the GP for help over my SHing. She looked at my healing up arm and said ‘I’m not treating you for scratches’. I butchered my arm a few months later and needed 11 stitches.

• I rang the crisis team while having a knife pointing at and sticking into my forehead. ‘Put a dvd on’ they said.

• I saw a counsellor about my permanently absent father. In the first session while explaining how he got to know me a bit and then fucked off she decided inexplicably to tear me to pieces. ‘Well why would he want to be around a stroppy teenager?!’ she said.

However there have been incredible therapists- like the one I’m currently seeing for body dysmoprhic disorder- who have helped me work through things and process things and make headway. So it’s some and some.

It’s not a profession anyone uncaring should enter.

My husband killed himself ten years ago. He's been treated extensively for depression over the preceding decade - with other episodes when he was a teenager and then when he was starting out in work (primary school teacher).

A month before he killed himself he had been talking about ending his life and received emergency care and in patient psychiatric care. As a result of that he stopped talking about killing himself and seemed to be better, so he was released. That's when he killed himself.

I don't blame any of the people involved in his care. Like many people who are suicidal and decide to kill them selves my husband made a real,effort to pretend and act like he was getting better so they would back off and give him space to do what he had decided was the only thing he could do. Die.

Mental health is still stigmatised. We still refer to someone killing themselves as committing suicide, as if it is still a crime.

We call self harm incidents calls for attention or help as if it is a child having a tantrum rather than an unwell person wanting to hurt themselves to stop the pain.

Cuts to mental health services are easy to make because the prejudice is already there in society.

tom not every area has access to advocacy, here it must be paid for by mental health services and the user must prove they need it. Mine was refused because I was told to use my family as advocates instead (they were abusive but as they were never taken to court I couldn't prove the need); eventually the service caved after I sent them a formal request I found online with the right legal writing stating I was legally entitled to advocacy due to having complex needs and that alone was enough to qualify. Still took seven months AND the person is an ex member of staff so not independant at all. I've no choice though as I cannot pay for my own advocacy and there's nothing free here.

@Becca19962014 that sucks I thought Mind advocacy covered everywhere. Seems we are lucky in Derbyshire

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/advocacy/#.Xgel6cCnwlQ

Unfortunately not. Mind centres are actually independent.

Ours offers no advocacy and their idea of support is to push their daily activities (which are useless if physically disabled and struggling financially as they expect those on disability benefits to pay extra due to it being a type of care); pushing becoming a member; sign up for a 'monthly well being box'; drop in to meet other patients (no chance) and day trips (again very expensive and no consideration for people physically disabled). Their office is also inaccessible for physically disabled.

When I rang head office to complain I was told it had nothing to do with them.

I'm not saying they don't do good but local one useless if physically disabled. I cannot do crafting type activities at any speed due to my physical conditions. I've no money left over to pay to join their organisation or for subscription boxes whatever they are and the last day trip was in a coach that was inaccessible and all that happened was people having a go at me for not trying hard enough to get in and it annoys me to be told in a patronising tone of voice I'm not given disability benefits to fritter them away - theyve no understanding at all of the additional expenses of living here and being physically disabled - not least being the removal of free hospital transport (which they don't care about as it doesn't effect those with MH issues - they will when it effects them which it will as its been deemed to be discriminatory).

They don't do advocacy and the so called helpline is just advertising the charity and asking for donations.

I know of other branches which are totally different.

When I was under the the crisis team, I had different people out every day and they insisted I explain my whole story and medical history to them every day. When I asked why they didn't have notes, they'd just shrug and not say much.

Their advice was always "go for a walk" or "have a cup of tea". I was suicidal and paranoid and couldn't even get out of bed or have a shower let alone anything else.

People who want to be signed off sick from seeking work

People are not automatically taking the piss because they want to be signed off sick from seeking work.

I have a job application on my computer at the moment which is uncompleted and will remain uncompleted because the person who I have offered to help complete it hasn't got the self confidence or motivation to do it due to severe anxiety and other problems caused by lifelong low self esteem due to emotional abuse by parents, bullying at school, a failed marriage and an adult life without friendship. The person is over-qualified for the job, would do a great job if appointed but I can't motivate them to sit down and complete the form with me.

WatchingTheMoon

DD complained about exactly the same things - every day, some one different from the Crisis Team spoke to her, and they asked the same stupid questions! In fact, she complains that all the workshops and groups they run are dumbed down and patronising!

She has also been told to make a cup of tea - she pointed out that some people self harm with a kettle, so it’s not a good idea to tell people to go use a kettle!

When my Mum was in psych hospital, she got to a point where she couldn't wash herself, dress herself, walk or talk. Because she couldn't get up from the table in the ward to come out to the visiting area, they said she didn't want to see us. She was sat at the table with her arms outstretched towards us and we weren't allowed to walk to her. Fortunately, the head of service saw us down the corridor and saw that I looked agitated. When he found out about their 'policies', he had a stern discussion with the staff and marched us into the ward so Mum could see us. From then on, we were allowed to go to her.

I was constantly told to have a hot bath or cup of tea or go for a walk or a jog..

Oh and, repeatedly asked had I thought of getting a GCSE and a "little job" a couple of hours a week so not allowed my qualifications or employment achievements either.

MH issues = thick and lazy.

Worse, that's the staff!

Additionally the change from DLA to PIP has made it harder for ALL disabled people to get benefits/financial support as it is no longer based on merely having a disability/diagnosis or the old fashioned expression "registered disabled."

Again and again people trot this rubbish out on here, DLA was never based on merely having a disability or a particular diagnosis. DLA was awarded on the basis of how a person's disability affects them, never on the basis of simply having that diagnosis.
PIP is different because it uses an absurdly rigid points based system that simply fails to recognise the complexity of many conditions. Well that and the other big difference of course, namely the laughable face to face assessments carried out by the lying scum from Capita and rubberstamped by the DWP.

Erm, I had a lifetimes award of DLA because I have an incurable disability with permanent features to it and had to be completely reassessed under PIP so....I wouldn't class myself as being underinformed in this area.

I guess I'll gave to namechange again now because I don't like giving too much identifying info under the one name.

The whole take a walk, have a cup of tea thing always gets quotes in these threads. I wonder what people would genuinely find helpful at those times as often the best we can do is help people get through minute by minute. There isnt an immediate fix when in a crisis often.

Its interesting that lots of people here have mentiones ongoing listening support when in my area that is not what gps are commisioning. In my local team at least our "budget" is for 6 sessions per person of support (less if its more expensive specific pychology) Thats what our funding covers per patient we have. Theres such a mismatch between what people expect and what we are given the resources to provide

When I watch American series/films and see the variety of "community sharing/talking groups" they have for lots of different issues I often think we could do with more of that here

Cancer
Addiction
Mental Health
Carers
Bereavement
Parenting
Eating Issues

I've seen all these groups on screen but never seem to in the UK.

Except AA of course

I've only stopped seeing my assigned community psychiatric nurse this year, albeit our visits became less frequent as my bipolar disorder stabilised with my medication change.

She would tell me how dire the mh services were in the wider area, the entire county was relying on a single psychiatrist at one point, because the NHS simply could not retain them. Obviously this puts a serious amount of strain on those working within the mh community team. To be honest, our relationship developed into a "friend popping round to the house for a coffee and a catch up", but when I needed more support, I had to wait for appointments to free up, because like I said, the amount of patients she was responsible for is unbelievably high.

She did bring students with her to our appointments if they were on the work placement part of their courses, so all we can really do is hope that more people decide to follow mh roles when considering employment options, because without it, and the good ones taking them under their wings and mentoring them, I dread to think about what will happen.

When I first qualified as a mental health nurse in the mid 90,s there were plenty of acute beds and staff , but often patients were often kept in hospital.detained under the mental health act for far longer than they should have been ,the area that the ward I worked on covers ,( the wards covered different sectors of the town) had quite a few patients that would be continually being discharged and redmitted these patients were considered by one particular psychiatrist to be high risk because they had addictions as well as a diagnosis of enduring mental illness which exacerbated symptoms ,but the psychiatrist was very risk averse and just wouldn't discharge obviously things have gone to far the other way now.

The whole take a walk, have a cup of tea thing always gets quotes in these threads. I wonder what people would genuinely find helpful at those times as often the best we can do is help people get through minute by minute.

Yes, but telling people to make a cup of tea or take a shower is not helping them to get through it minute by minute! It comes across as such inane advice as to be laughable! It’s obviously an attempt to get them off the phone, because the MH professional prefers to do other things!

DD says the Samaritans are genuinely helpful!

A MH helpline where they obviously don’t want to talk to people is a contradiction in terms!

How would posters like MH professionals to give advice?

Cups of tea, baths, walks ect are all self care behaviours that would make an upset person feel better.

A person struggling severely with MH problems cannot self care, they can sit in the bath all they like but it doesn't compute to their brain to relax. I've worked with a severely depressed person and I stopped because I'm not empathic enough for it. It frustrated me that I knew the person would feel better with fresh air, good sleep and being clean but they were unable to do so.

MH professionals may become more frustrated with 'clients' than other professions as only the client can decide to go for a walk every day, engage in therapy, take medication as it has been prescribed and actively choose to do activities that create serotonin. Maybe that's the reason some MH professionals come across as cold and heartless.

"The whole take a walk, have a cup of tea thing always gets quotes in these threads. I wonder what people would genuinely find helpful at those times as often the best we can do is help people get through minute by minute"

Actually listening and appearing to give a damn would help more than the same inane advice over and over.

Take into account people's needs.

I physically cannot do those things and cannot afford the help I need to do them, even if I could now I've been abused so much by other patients I cannot trust anyone to be anywhere near me. "Encouragement" might work for some with mh issues but some of us have physical needs which means we cannot do those things, some of use cannot sleep through the night no matter how much we might want to as we need to take meds, we cannot simply go for a walk when every step is agony and cannot keep ourselves clean without expensive specialist carers.

I don't care if your other, more ill, patients can walk fine - I cannot. Likewise if they're able to make tea or have a quick wash every day. It doesn't change my body not working properly.

"Patient centred care" shouldn't be a phrase to be mocked, nor should "multidisciplinary care". They should be facts. You have a patient with physical needs? Then respectfully speak to their professionals and invite them with plenty of notice to your meetings (so not phoning a consultant/physio/ot/GP at 9am to let them know there's a meeting at 9:30am the same day about their patient remaining a patient, and then bitching that they couldn't be bothered to turn up) and take on board all patients needs don't dismiss them because you are supposedly an "expert" in liars and con artists and therefore know better that they are physically fit and healthy regardless of so-called medical evidence - accusing them of being conned. No one now will engage with mh team under any circumstances - when asked to I get the response "I tried. I'm too busy to deal with people who don't know what they're doing"

Other departments managed to see me and not bitch about other professionals not knowing what they're doing. It's not difficult.

I am not doubting anyone’s experience on here at all

I know MH services are over stretched

I doubt someone is giving advice like make a cup of tea to get someone off the phone as they would prefer to do something else is far more likely they are having to prioritize people’s needs

Often the gentle reminders to self care are needed. I have often had someone say to me I can’t we chat about this and they can but if I didn’t have time to have a longer conversation with them that probably wouldn’t happen. This isn’t always possible though

Can we ever do enough? Often we can only contain at times. I can sit with some for hours and hours and that wouldn’t be enough. They can have a whole team working with them and it doesn’t feel it’s enough.

It’s so complex the work why some resist wanting to help themselves (and many do - and often MH professionals are the ones that are blamed), the them and us scenario we often have to try and manage, the splitting within a team from those we see, not taking their medication correctly, people living in the community who can’t not manage without a huge amount of support something changes and it has a domino effect, the anger some project towards us, the complexities of the relationships that we build

I really do believe most working in MH services care and work hard. It’s not an easy area to work in and no doubt the most complex in the health sector

It's rare to be honest to have someone work in mental health and not become resentful. If you think about what they deal with, day in, day out, its quite a lot on your own mental state to take, and mental tiredness is worse than physical tiredness. It drains you completely. Some people don't handle it well, hence the reactions you're hearing of here.

It's not an excuse, but realistically could you listen to all of these horrific stories every day and not be affected by it? The abuse in some people's lives is so horrible, and yet the abuser is often never sentenced for it. They get away with it. It makes you lose faith in humanity. You see carers abusing their patients, psychologists drinking themselves to death to try and forget the shit they've heard.

More needs done, but they won't pay for it.

Services vary from area to area and obviously people are complicated as well.

I do think things would be much easier in my care were others involved were engaged with properly instead of being accused of being stupid and conned by me. It's not like I was diagnosed with EDS and other illnesses like diabetes on a personal opinion, plenty of medical proof if you can understand it (the problem being most non-specialists can't so they need to engage properly with the specialists).

It can feel like staff just want to move on to someone else, even if it's not the intention or specifically said (though I've heard that seeing me is a waste of their time and others are likely dying as a result and now refuse to contact anyone because of that risk).