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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Or is this really melodramatic??

121 replies

paulhollywoodshairgel · 27/12/2019 15:45

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2019/12/26/gavin-and-stacey-christmas-special-fairytale-of-new-york-lgbt-hate-speech-11961730/amp/

This has really rattled my cage!!! A tad over the top I think..

OP posts:
MorganKitten · 30/12/2019 21:59

@TheNameGames I’ve not changed my stance at all. I have said they can be more than one, have been, that lgbtqai is the community- you seem fixated on Saying she can’t be all. And she doesn’t have to say what one she is.
I say I’m a member of the lgbtq community, because which one I don’t have to state and also... it’s a community.. that’s the point.

MorganKitten · 30/12/2019 22:00

@TheNameGames also, why are you telling a person they can’t be what they are? She’s stated she’s a member of the community. End of. Doesn’t have to justify it to you or anyone else.

nicky7654 · 30/12/2019 22:10

I'm offended by people constantly being offended 😂 World has gone crazy! Bring back humour please I'm bored lol

TheNameGames · 30/12/2019 22:21

@MorganKitten
also, why are you telling a person they can’t be what they are? She’s stated she’s a member of the community. End of. Doesn’t have to justify it to you or anyone else.

It’s not “end of” if I want to continue the conversation. I wasn’t asking the poster to justify it to me or anybody else. What I said was a person cannot be gay and bisexual at the same time. Because it’s incompatible. It’s like saying blue can be purple.

1Morewineplease · 30/12/2019 22:30

Dear God! It was written in a different age and with different intent. F**t was a different word, and the lyricist wasn’t writing about homosexuality.
Maybe we should analyse more and knee-jerk less.
And Yes... i remember when ‘gay’ meant ‘happy’ ( not that long ago! )

1Morewineplease · 30/12/2019 22:34

PS ... faggots are a very lovely type of meatball, containing offal, which are splendidly revered in The Midlands! Have I just offended?

Defenbaker · 30/12/2019 23:03

All this pressure to tip toe around and examine every word before speaking so as not to offend any and every minority group is getting very tiresome. It's killing humour and, if anything, tends to create resentment against the very groups that it is trying to shield. Talk about an own goal.

olivertwistwantsmore · 31/12/2019 09:57

What a fuss about nothing. What about all the songs by rappers that use 'fuck' and 'motherfucker' all the time and that call women whores or sluts?

The song writer, Shane McGowan, said about the song: 'The word was used by the character because it fitted with the way she would speak and with her character. She is not supposed to be a nice person, or even a wholesome person. She is a woman of a certain generation at a certain time in history and she is down on her luck and desperate. Her dialogue is as accurate as I could make it but she is not intended to offend! ‘She is just supposed to be an authentic character and not all characters in songs and stories are angels or even decent and respectable, sometimes characters in songs and stories have to be evil or nasty in order to tell the story effectively.

Read more: metro.co.uk/2019/12/16/shane-macgowan-doesnt-understand-slur-fairytale-new-york-insulting-gays-11913975/?ito=cbshare

honeyloops · 31/12/2019 10:33

Why are you all SO desperate to be able to say that word? There are literally thousands of other words you can use, why is it this one that you're all so obsessed with?

Surely, given how many words there are, if one upsets a large group of people who ask you nicely not to say it, it's basic human decency to agree? Why do you need to be able to say that one so badly?

(Also, the faux-naive 'what is an LGBTQIA, I am confused, this is all newfangled nonsense and I am just an innocent confused person' is VERY telling, and boring)

ClairesKimono · 31/12/2019 10:41

It's not faux naivety - it is people quite reasonably pointing out that one cannot, for example, be L and B at the same time.

Many LGB people object to this lumping together of sexuality (LGB) and gender nonsense. T is not a sexuality, neither is I and intersex people are rightly annoyed to be dragged in to this ridiculous alphabet soup.

Check out the newly formed LGB Alliance for more info on this.

Lweji · 31/12/2019 11:31

Why are you all SO desperate to be able to say that word?

I think you mean hear it.

There's a difference between being desperate to hear it and not understanding what the fuss is about.
It's more because those upset are focusing on the word and not context.
We can't ban everything someone gets upset about. There has to be a good reason.

Lweji · 31/12/2019 11:32

And what ClairesKimono said

honeyloops · 31/12/2019 11:41

We can't ban everything someone gets upset about. There has to be a good reason.

And you think having that word used against you for years by homophobes, some of whom want to hurt or kill you, and many of whom don't accept your basic right to love who you want, isn't a good reason? They're not just 'upset' - by all means, keep using the word 'moist' even though it's everyone's least favourite word - they're saying, loud and clear, 'this word has been used to denigrate us for years and has become a symbol of the hatred and oppression we've faced', and you're all like, 'ooh, someone's upset! Tough shit, we love hearing hate speech on our Christmas Day TV because our feelings are more important than yours'...

ClairesKimono · 31/12/2019 11:43

Tough shit, we love hearing hate speech on our Christmas Day TV because our feelings are more important than yours'...

Enough with the hyperbole FGS.

honeyloops · 31/12/2019 11:45

Holy shit this place is a hovel.

It's killing humour and, if anything, tends to create resentment against the very groups that it is trying to shield. Talk about an own goal.

IF YOUR HUMOUR RELIES ON ABUSING MARGINALISED GROUPS, MAYBE IT'S JUST NOT FUCKING FUNNY.

Also, if 'I'd prefer it if you didn't say a word that is a symbol of hatred and oppression towards people like me' makes you hate the gays, maybe you've got a little homophobia problem, @Defenbaker.

honeyloops · 31/12/2019 11:46

Okay @ClairesKimono, but how is that hyperbolic?

You're saying that the feelings of people who are actually affected by the use of this word are less important than the need for TV shows/radio to be able to use the word?

ClairesKimono · 31/12/2019 11:48

You said that people 'love hearing hate speech on our Christmas Day tv'! That is hyperbolic. Grin

JKScot4 · 31/12/2019 11:49

Jesus wept, how many times? It is not being used as a gay slur, it means dirty tramp 🙄
Tell your multilettered DD not to be so easily offended and educate herself a bit.
I’m glad my gay DD isn’t a delicate ❄️

ClairesKimono · 31/12/2019 11:50

Also honeyloops why are you not up in arms about the use of the word 'slut'? Or does that not matter to you?

honeyloops · 31/12/2019 11:50

Okay, fine, maybe people don't love hearing it. But they'd rather hear it and hurt people, than not hear it. Can you even imagine how hurtful that is? To know that there are thousands and thousands of people who are like, 'god, isn't it ridiculous that these people don't want us to say this horrible thing that reduces them to a slur'?

ClairesKimono · 31/12/2019 11:53

I don't like hearing the word 'slut' in the song particularly but I have the ability to put this in to context and understand that both singers are playing characters in the song. They are supposed to be offensive and pissed up, abusing each other.

If we start down this road, how many plays will have to be edited, novels changed? Can't you see where censorship takes us? Or are you ok with book burning a la TRAs and JK Rowling?

honeyloops · 31/12/2019 11:54

Yep, also think the word slut is horrible, this conversation was about the homophobic slur, not the word slut.

ClairesKimono · 31/12/2019 11:55

And have you the critical faculties to understand that the singers are playing characters in the song?

honeyloops · 31/12/2019 12:03

I get your point, Claires, I do. But I think there's a big leap between burning books which already exist, and two well-loved British comics writing something which was going to air at prime time on Christmas Day when half the country would be watching, and presumably not even thinking about the fact that it would hurt some people. I saw a great Tweet that said all that scene needed to redeem it was Nessa saying over that line, "oh, I don't feel comfortable with that word you know" - and it's true. That would have been kind of funny (Nessa, bolshy as hell, subverting her selfish/gives no fucks persona and being a bit 'woke') and given the tiniest nod that says, yep this song is part of British Christmas culture whether we like it or not, but it's okay to acknowledge that part of it it harmful.

Now, there are a LOT of gross things in Gavin and Stacey - fat jokes, slut jokes, all sorts - that I personally think are pretty horrible, and I haven't watched it since I was about 18 and grew up a bit. But those episodes, like everything else you mentioned - plays, books etc - are already out there. What we should be able to do is to show that we've evolved and learned and that what people thought was acceptable five or ten or fifty years ago isn't necessarily okay now, and change accordingly. It's not a big ask.

honeyloops · 31/12/2019 12:06

And yes, you sarcastic bastard, I do have 'the critical faculties' to recognise that they're playing characters. If I play a character and then go round shouting racist things at non-white people and then get arrested for a hate crime, can I just tell the police it's a character?

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