To think that Health visitors are a certain annoying breed generally?

[Moomin8]

I've just had my 4th baby and the health visitor came the other day. I found her really annoying and rude. First of all she came walking into my living room in her dirty boots and got mud all over my newly cleaned carpet.

My youngest before dc4 is 10 years old and the HV said she was going to therefore talk to me as if I'd never actually had a baby she also wanted to look in my bedroom - I told her no.

Then I thought back to my older dc and their HVs and realised they are all pretty much the same whereas midwives, when they visit are really nice and helpful usually and don't speak to you as though you're an idiot. I'm a 39 year old university educated person and I find these people intrusive and annoying.

What is it with health visitors?

Thank you. And no I don’t have the money. But thank fully the gp is £40 a time and my dc are Sick once in a blue moon, they’ve only been a handful of times in 18 years (also have a very good deal on private health insurance so it’s quite cheap per month incase something serious happens).

I’ve had to pay for vaccinations privately but save up in advance and you can get good packages so it’s not been too bad really.

A male HV coming in and spouting off that he knows more about breastfeeding?

Hahhahahaha. No. He'd be told where to go

In fact I'm disgusted at Mumsnet
A thread in the vein aimed at any other profession would not be allowed to stand

I've reported it twice. I think it's utterly out of order.

@anothernamejeeves

I don't condone the abuse that some posters have directed at HVs, but surely people are entitled to share their disappointing experiences and reflect on them? I mean, if lots of new mums feel failed by the service and it is acknowledged by many that improvement is needed, isn't that the kind of thing that Mumsnet might want to make a campaign topic?

A thread in the vein aimed at any other profession would not be allowed to stand

Yes it would. There was a thread only a few days ago slating psychiatrists and another one asking if all mental health professionals were unkind and uncaring.

I work in mental health. I dont take it personally. People have a right to talk about their experiences and actually, its good to look at the overwhelming messages coming through and how we can improve.

A male HV coming in and spouting off that he knows more about breastfeeding?

What if it was a female hv who had never had children or breastfed?

I haven't read the entire thread and have simply posted from experience

Apols @SuperFurryDoggy what can we do collectively? I have real concerns about the way resources are wasted which coukd be used better to effect more support if targetted.

The problem as I see it, is that the health visitors being criticised on here can't respond. We're hearing just one side of everything and it does come across as very biased.

It reads like typical internet forum mentality, where everyone pitches in. It's a forum of bullying and it doesn't show Mumsnet in a good light.

A female HV who had never breastfed would still presumably have possessed breasts at some point in her life, so yes I'd imagine she'd have a better understanding than a man, even if she had never used her own breasts for that particular purpose.

A male HV coming in and spouting off that he knows more about breastfeeding?

What if it was a female hv who had never had children or breastfed?

When I worked as a nurse I worked in many different settings. Empathy and knowledge is what you need to care for people. I worked on a breast cancer ward but I hadn't had breast cancer, I managed somehow!

I had the same one for my first 2 children and she was genuinely lovely. Then they rejigged the areas and I got a new one but the time I had my third. She was OK but a bit wet and useless. I did have a midwife come to visit my after my second who I almost showed the door though, she was very overweight, sat right next to the radiator and tutted that it was far too warm in my house and to be careful of sids! I showed her the thermostat, it was 19 and baby dressed accordingly. Then asked me if my baby was getting enough milk (breastfeeding) I am quite an anxious person in general and she could have really set me off doubting myself.

It reads like typical internet forum mentality, where everyone pitches in. It's a forum of bullying and it doesn't show Mumsnet in a good light.

But telling women that they mustn't discuss bad experiences isn't bullying?

Loads and loads of posters here have said that their health visitor was lovely, it's not an entirely negative thread.

But if hvs don't want people to think badly of them then all they have to do is speak to mothers as if they are competent human beings, and not imply to them that they'll be reported to social services if they don't let the hv start nosing around their bedroom and their cupboards.

"or look at your stitches" my hv looked at mine, per my request as I thought there was a problem, and there was. She phoned in a prescription request to the gp's surgery, and I was able to get someone to pick it up.

I don’t care how the HVs are clutching at their pearl necklaces as they’re reading this thread. If I say that I found my HV totally useless because she only managed to scare me and wasn’t a little bit helpful, it’s only the truth. She would tell me DD wasn’t putting on weight properly, using charts made for formula fed babies and I was told that if she hasn’t put on more weight at her repeated visit, I would have to start supplement with formula. That was when DD was feeding constantly, having plenty of wet nappies and my supply was great. She also suggested controlled crying as the best way to train a baby to sleep. I refused to treat a two weeks old baby like a German Shepherd puppy and was delighted to see her leaving. One of the worst uses of taxpayers’ money and health resources.

It's one thing discussing disappointing experiences quite another wishing death on a hcp and branding someone as doing a job as being forced to as they are too dangerous to work on a ward. Christ on a bike it's awful

@anothernamejeeves

I agree about that. I think that the majority of posters have simply discussed their experiences though, so just a case of reporting/deleting the bad ones?

Also just as bad that nobody said it was disgustingly out of order because I mean it's only a health visitor they deserve a slow painful death wished on them....

quite another wishing death on a hcp

I completely agree that is out of order. Thats one comment which should be flagged/removed. But that doesnt mean the rest of the discussion should be deleted. I dont see why women shouldn't be allowed to talk about their own experiences. Its important.

@elfthaygotaway I appreciate some families are in desperate need and I imagine these sorts of families are easily picked up by GPs/midwives. Certainly that's where the money should be spent but it very seriously makes me question why families like mine needed an HV rpund for a total of two hours, delivering instructions, being patronising and actually unable to answer anything remotely complex and totally unable to explain the precise nature of her role.

It wasn't rocket science. Mid 90s, two professional parents in their 30s, pristine and lovely home, planned baby - indeed two orevious miscarriages so obviously very wanted. All it needed was "hi, I'm x, oh how lovely, here's the book, here's some literature, here are clinic times if you want them, let me know if you need any additional support. Job done. But that wpuld have been empowering ..............and polite. But it would have been polite if she'd made an apppointment but she just wasn't that polite.

Ah no I think they do a terrific job. It must be so hard and I couldn't do it. I don't understand the defensiveness though, they can look in my bedroom if they want!

The 'health visitor' who visited me after I had my second child wasn't actually a qualified health visitor or nurse. She was some sort of health visiting assistant. She was nice enough, and I'm sure she wasn't just dragged off the street and did in fact have some training in the field, but she said herself that she wasn't a qualified health visitor. On the one hand we are told that it is a vital job carried out by highly trained professionals yet on the other we are told not to worry about the fact that it's not a qualified professional, because they still know what they're doing. Which seems contradictory.

But honestly, it wouldn't matter how many qualifications someone had, I still don't feel that they have any business asking to see my bedroom.

I honestly felt that I'd get and did get better advice from experienced mothers than I did my health visitor who appeared to be interested only in her paperwork and in doing as little as possible.

Also, HV's are nurses. They are vocationally qualified, they are not professionally qualified. A doctor is professionally qualified and if I had any concerns about my children, their health, their growth, their development, etc., then I consulted with a professionally qualified doctor who was able to give a professional opinion or refer to the appropriate related professional. All my HV was able to say in response to questions was "I don't know, I'm not an expert". If I have questions about my child particularly relating to immunisations, etc., then I expect the person instructing me to do something to be an expert and to be able to answer fairly straightforward questions and to be able to back up their answers with evidence based research rather than saying, I don't know I can only pass on what's in the leaflet.

When I hit the black wall of depression when I finally realised I had failed to breast feed my first baby; having been told by midwives and the HV that was what was best and that all women could breastfeed and it was totally the natural thing to do, did I go to the HV to get help? Of course I didn't I went to my GP, rang up on the usual number without having to speak to an HV to tell me to go to the Dr, because - guess what she wasn't an expert. Could the HV have prescribed anti-depressants? No of course not.

It's a Universal surveillance exercise, delivered in a particularly disingenuous manner. The correct introduction should be: "we are a universal service and our principal role is to identify and refer on families at risk. We often continue to work with some of these families in a supportive way and in collaboration with other agencies to minimise risks for the baby and children under 5. Beyond that we provide an administrative service around immunisation and developmental checks sub contracted to us by the commissioning groups because these are in fact linked to GP revenue and targets. We also provide some baby weighing and simple advice services about sleep and feeding largely to reduce pressure on busy GPs who again commission these services because they are general inquiries about the baby's well-being rather than based on clinical need.

A little honesty would help. That also goes for services such as CAMHS (which are far worse - far far worse). Another service where nurses are too heavily involved in decisions about potential diagnoses and keeping young people who are ill aways from proper, professional, medical assessment by properly qualified doctors but that is another thread altogether.

sat right next to the radiator and tutted that it was far too warm in my house and to be careful of sids! I showed her the thermostat, it was 19 and baby dressed accordingly

I had the opposite! HV very bluntly said “the house is too cold, you need to turn the heating up”. I picked up our wizzy room thermometer and said it’s 18.5 degrees. She said “that’s wrong”. I picked up the central heating thermostat which said the same. She said “it is too cold. You need to turn the heating up”.

what can we do collectively

Stories on this thread span 30-odd years. Mine are from between 2008 and around 2014. When I googled what parent support there was for health visiting I found a newspaper article from 2018 claiming that only 5% of parents did not find the service useful (although I could not find the study behind that). So I don’t know. I think that the act of respectfully questioning and sharing our experiences is positive in itself. Empowering women on the Mumsnet boards to question professional advice if it does not ring true for them.

It would be useful to find ways of feeding back to the NHS in a more formal way though.