To think that Health visitors are a certain annoying breed generally?

[Moomin8]

I've just had my 4th baby and the health visitor came the other day. I found her really annoying and rude. First of all she came walking into my living room in her dirty boots and got mud all over my newly cleaned carpet.

My youngest before dc4 is 10 years old and the HV said she was going to therefore talk to me as if I'd never actually had a baby she also wanted to look in my bedroom - I told her no.

Then I thought back to my older dc and their HVs and realised they are all pretty much the same whereas midwives, when they visit are really nice and helpful usually and don't speak to you as though you're an idiot. I'm a 39 year old university educated person and I find these people intrusive and annoying.

What is it with health visitors?

My first HV was really really good, she was straight out of training, she wasn’t particularly pushy, followed up with information leaflets in the post about breastfeeding support groups etc and was actually good company!

I moved when DS was 3 and the HV team wanted to do a visit, the woman left me multiple voicemails that got more and more hysterical. I work full time office hours, and I am not allowed a personal phone on my person in the office.

When I politely refused the visit, as I didn’t think I needed it, she became an arse and basically implied I wasn’t a good mother, and shouted at me for never answering the phone....

I thankfully have a good support net work in my new area, and name dropped some of my family members/friends (who she would of known, and wouldn’t want them to know what an arse she was) and said if I needed help I would speak to them...

Classic from my Health Visitor who asked (after commenting that my son was on the small side) "Do you have any small people in the family?" 🙄

Do you think the hv told white parents not to feed their babies spicy food?

DH and I are white. Our absolutely lovely HV (not white) did advise me to avoid anything too spicy when weaning...

So, how do I decline any further visits?

Classic from my Health Visitor who asked (after commenting that my son was on the small side) "Do you have any small people in the family?"

Whaaaaattt?!?!?!?!

"Yes, as it happens, we have a baby - compared to people in general, they usually tend to be on the smaller side of average...."

I had a really awful HV with DC1. I was sitting on the sofa watching a film whilst DC slept in my arms. He was less than a week old. She said he’ll never go down in his cot if you hold him whilst he sleeps and asked if he had a cot upstairs. I sort of nodded along then realised she was waiting for me to take him there right then. When I didn’t immediately get up she took him from my arms and walked upstairs with me and DH following dumbstruck behind, asked which way to his nursery (which we weren’t actually using at that point) and put him in his cot. We were too thrown to do anything other than go along with it. We were two 30-something professionals but felt like naughty teenagers! I think I may have had some nice ones too (never the same one twice) but of course I don’t recall those as easily! There was a general trend of presenting personal opinion as fact though.

We moved to a new area shortly after having DC2 and when I registered with the GP I must have opted out of HVs because about 3 years later I get a panicked phone call from a local HV saying I’d slipped through the net and she needed to visit me immediately. I was working during the few daytime slots she had free and reluctant to take time off work. I had to ask her quite directly what the consequences of refusing a visit was as it sounded like she was implying they would have concerns about the children if I refused. This was despite the fact that our older child was in full time education at this point and our youngest was just about to start mornings at the school-run Nursery. Eventually I said she could come round whilst I was at work and meet the children whilst under the care of our (Ofsted registered) Nanny. At which point she changed her mind and we never heard from her again...

I was a Health Visitor. You simply tell your health visitor that you dont feel you need any more visits and that you will contact her or your GP if you have any concerns. No drama needed. We are human beings. Not everyone needs a health visitor, not everyone gets a good one. Same in Every profession. Much of it is not really understanding what can be useful. I had no need of a health visitor for my first 3 children ( not a HV at that time) but when I had my 4th there were times a HV became very useful. It is a universal service for two reasons, 1 to not stigmatise a targetted service ( as happens to SS) and 2 to not miss out on families where there can be real need regardless of wealth, eg domestic abuse/coercion, post natal depression, emotional needs, hidden poverty, special needs and disability, get my drift?
Many of the complaints I am reading here are clumsy/inappropriate language, mis communication, overcautious guestimates, sometimes inexperience, sometimes out of date views, In some case judgmental.
These things are bad but not criminal or neglectful. It may surprise some of you but sometimes the most brilliant, competent educated, empowered women are sometimes floored by parenthood. Its a hard thing to admit. It is a shame this is a list of she said she said, although there are people on here who have got on well. Empowering parents should be our aim, clearly this often isnt happening, sometimes we get it right. Not about information giving and check list ticking but helping confidence grow to make your own decisions, weigh your own babies, learn to follow good instincts and when to ask for help. It is sometimes a scary job, nursing was easier, see a problem address it. Sometime we have to watch and wait, hard to articulate well, developmental delay and autism are classic examples, not to terrify parents, not to ignore concerns

My HV made me attend a postnatal group because there was a 9 year gap between my last child and my DS. I then spent the several weeks feeling like a social pariah because I was a mum of 3 as opposed to being a first time mum.

I've got my son's 2 year check coming up and I'm dreading it.

I totally get the people saying that HVs are an extra layer able to intervene and save babies (and mums) from abuse or neglect - but I don't see why this has to be at the expense of a great many mums who are made to feel humiliated, patronised, criticised and, ironically, put under a lot of extra stress at a vulnerable time to make sure that they can't possibly be perceived as the bad parents where HVs can make a very positive difference wrt safeguarding and protecting children.

Also, why do you hear of so many reports of rude, critical and unsupportive behaviour - along with often bad advice and/or not understanding the actual basics that should be part of HV 101 (no knowledge of premature birth, looking after twins etc)? Yes, you also hear of a lot of kind, helpful, friendly HVs too, but as a profession, there seem to be so very many highly unsuitable people doing it.

Personally, I'm very surprised if potential causes for concern aren't identified in pregnancy, but that so much store is set by a visit or two to the parent's home after a baby has already been born and been taken to a highly dysfunctional home.

There must be a lot of clear factors that might suggest it would be prudent to monitor and follow up certain mums during their pregnancies and after the births, without placing the burden (and wasting the resources) on ALL new mums. Obviously, it should still be offered to all, but made clear that it's entirely optional, in cases where there are no flags whatsoever.

I think there's too much of the 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' mentality at play, when we all have things to hide/preserve - our dignity, privacy, personal freedoms. Taken to extremes, you might as well say let's take all doors off public toilet cubicles as this will help catch people doing illegal and/or questionable things - and if you're just using the toilet as normal, you have no reason to worry about everybody being able to see you. Unless you have something to hide, of course....

The thing is HVs don’t tell you that the service is optional! Until I found out online I thought you had to see one. That’s certainly how they portray it, when they called me to do my sons 2 year check I declined and told them that as the service was optional... I will be declining! She was very surprised I knew I didn’t have to see them. I see them once for the first check (just because if you don’t they like to say you are a concern and may threaten to report to SS) so I do they first initial newborn check up with them then they will invite you to the baby clinic after, then I just never go again and if they call for any checks politely decline!

My HV made me attend a postnatal group because there was a 9 year gap between my last child and my DS. I then spent the several weeks feeling like a social pariah because I was a mum of 3 as opposed to being a first time mum.

I've got my son's 2 year check coming up and I'm dreading it.

But apparently, these fears and concerns that are adding stress and worry to you (and millions of other new mums) at an already busy and pressured time should just be swept under the carpet and you should be told to shut up and live with them as 'normal', because HVs now and again uncover cases of abuse or neglect of which there were absolutely no signs before the birth....

Did anyone’s hv ask lots of questions about their husband? Mine asked a lot of personal questions about him which were none of her business. I found it really off-putting having a stranger come into my home and ask prying questions, especially at a time when I felt vulnerable after having a baby.

Statistically speaking, domestic abuse is most likely to start in pregnancy or shortly after birth. That's why HV have to ask about your relationship/marriage, to give women the opportunity to make a disclosure if they're feeling unsafe in their relationship. They can then help women to access the right support and safeguard the child. I appreciate that it probably feels unecessary or intrusive if everything is fine but since 2 women a week are killed by their current or former partner in the UK it's vitally important that HCP's are able to have these conversations.

The thing is HVs don’t tell you that the service is optional!

No, although it's your own free choice, for some reason, it's portrayed to you as a done deal with nobody ever asking if you'd like to participate at all. And if you discover that you don't actually have to have a HV and then decline the service, well.... THAT sounds very suspicious, doesn't it....

When introducing myself to a new family my first line was always that this service is entirely optional, you can take as alttle or as much as you want, if you dont hit it off with one you can change. I would never report to Ss if someone declined that is ridiculous, have you seen their workloads? Developmental checks can always be parent led as so they should be. I spent 2 years leading a professional practice change programme addressing many of the issues mentioned here to modernise practice in my area but I can tell you the accountabuility fears from on high was amountain to climb, especially child protection. If there was a comparative thread on midwives it would be similar. Parent led is the goal but I have since learned old tick programmes have been re introduced

I’ve had 4 children, no HV has EVER told me it’s optional and I’m sure others haven’t been told either. I’ve only ever been told days and times they HAD to see me. And yes I have been threatened with SS when I told one I couldn’t see her on the day she wanted to. One told me she HAD to see my baby by day 15.

That’s a good post @NoMorePoliticsPlease, I feel bad that mine was so one-sided now.

I do remember one great piece of advice with DC1. It was a lovely sunny day and the HV said why are you inside on a lovely day like this, you’ll get PND, put baby in his pram and take a walk. The midwife advice had been rest and feed and rest and feed and, whilst not depressed, I was bored out of my fecking mind. I had a lovely walk, although I did get a telling off from the midwife when I walked the 15 minutes to clinic a day or so later. By this time I had learned to smile, nod, and pick and choose the advice I listened to though.

It’s quite a leap from nursing though. I would imagine that in nursing you have a fairly prescriptive relationship with people, whereas Health Visiting seems like it should be a more collaborative relationship.

Yeah all the health visitors I've had with my first (had a lot because was moved all over the place due to social services intervention because of my partner) have been awful bar one. And I had to see them compulsorily because social services insisted even though I breastfed my son successfully from day 1 for 4 and a half months and he put on a pound a week consistently. I got a breastfeeding Nazi of a HV at one place I was staying who when told her I was thinking of starting combination feeding my son she said "Absolutely no way. Formula milk is for babies who's mother's are dead or too sick to feed themselves. Keep trying." Most unhelpful person ever considering my son was cluster feeding and needed A LOT of milk from me (thankfully I made a lot lol) but it got too much and I eventually weaned him onto formula which helped get a routine started. She refused to even acknowledge that supplementing breastfeeding with formula was helpful for the mother and the child for comfort and routine if needed. The only nice one I've had happens to be an ex midwife and is a very nice, personable, non judgemental woman. Another health visitor I had (at another place I was temporarily staying with my son whom SS also insisted visited constantly despite no concerns about his health ever being raised) used to let herself into my house without knocking. She was the awful snobby thing I've ever met. Looked like a sinewy yoga freak who needed a good meal, talked down to me, and then started lecturing me on what to feed my son when he started on solids. She basically said she only approved of finger foods, no spoon feeding, only organic produce and no fat... (?) She said she didn't think I should give him butter on bread or toast and only offer him rice cakes which to my mind have a sole purpose of being a tea coaster. Glad I'm rid of her but I get on well with our one back at our main place now and she only visits for a coffee and an informal chat every week or two.

When introducing myself to a new family my first line was always that this service is entirely optional, you can take as alttle or as much as you want, if you dont hit it off with one you can change. I would never report to Ss if someone declined that is ridiculous, have you seen their workloads?

That's good to hear, although I hope you do so at the hospital/clinic or over the phone before you arrive at their home, rather than making them feel very awkward to turn you away at the door when you're already there.

The problem is that it sounds like you're one of the good ones. Have you ever noticed with companies and businesses, it's always the ones with consistently exemplary service and happy customers that put up prominent links on their websites as to how to complain or leave them, whereas the shockingly awful ones make the info almost impossible to find, as they know that people will complain or want to leave them?

I'm sure that you wouldn't make trivial or vindictive referrals to SS, but reading through this thread, it sounds like not all HVs have the same professional attitude and scruples as you.

When I moved from breast feeding to formula at 5m and my son put on a bit more weight than normal the health visitor remarked "well he will now you're artificially feeding him". At the weighing clinics they were all very jaded thought.

During labour I had an amazing midwife who was about to retrain as a health visitor. I didn't realise it at the time but after my health visitor experience I often looked back and thought of the loss that represented.

Did anyone’s hv ask lots of questions about their husband? Mine asked a lot of personal questions about him which were none of her business. I found it really off-putting having a stranger come into my home and ask prying questions, especially at a time when I felt vulnerable after having a baby.

Statistically speaking, domestic abuse is most likely to start in pregnancy or shortly after birth. That's why HV have to ask about your relationship/marriage, to give women the opportunity to make a disclosure if they're feeling unsafe in their relationship. They can then help women to access the right support and safeguard the child. I appreciate that it probably feels unecessary or intrusive if everything is fine but since 2 women a week are killed by their current or former partner in the UK it's vitally important that HCP's are able to have these conversations.

I don't think the PP elaborated on the kinds of questions the HV asked about her husband, but there's a way of doing it without assuming guilty until proven otherwise. There's a world of difference between:

A. "Do you have any personal concerns at all? Having a baby is always stressful and can put a lot of pressure on families and the parents' relationships. We always ask just to make sure that new mums know we can help with any worries whatsoever. Sometimes, parenthood can really change dads and partners - often they can be unsupportive and, shockingly, some can even turn violent towards the mum or baby, so we can always step in and protect mums and babies as long as we're aware." ;

B. How has your husband reacted to parenthood? Has he been violent or abusive? A lot of men do that when their wives or pregnant or have just given birth. Does he have a high-pressure job? Has he given you cause for concern before? Is he struggling with the new baby? Are you frightened to be alone with him? Are you afraid that he might hurt you or the baby?"

Both are effectively giving the same opportunity for the mum to raise the red flag - but only one of them is how I'd expect a true professional to ask, absent of any prior/other genuine causes for concern.

My first was fine and a help although not overly memorable. My second was Male (not an issue for me but becomes relevant ) ds2 had spent a reasonable time in NICU and both he and I had been extremely poorly so had extended midwife access after birth (not sure if this was standard lots of screw ups in my pregnancy like not raising the fact my blood pressure was high and I ended up in icu after hellp syndrome, I wasn't remotely about to complain as the hospital midwives were amazing and quite literally ran me unconscious through corridors which saved my life and ds2 so I was so grateful I ignored the other stuff) so I sort of suspect it was nerves.

However he turned up spoke to me like I was 2 and produced a knitted boob. I looked confused and asked why?he said to teach me about how the breast works for breast feeding , I politely pointed out that ds2 was now 13 weeks so if I didn't know it was unlikely to start now.

He smugly asked which of us knew more about breastfeeding, I again politely (with that British hahaha but we all do) pointed out that it was my second child and I had been breast feeding and pumping in the hospital since ds2 was born and on discharge had been going back every 2 hours 24 hours a day (think it was 2 might have been 4) for 13 weeks and had breastfed ds1.

He sighed and said I think you should listen to me ? I thought ok , no need to be arrogant listen to what the man has to say.

" so this is the areola, am I going too fast for you?"
Nice man meant well but an idiot.

I rang to say I was happy for another to attend but not him , to which I got a lecture about the same training and his gender didn't matter (please no feminist board....this was their words not mine and I dont actually care about the difference between sex and gender!).

When she let me get a word in edgeways I ripped her a new one and clearly explained I couldn't care less what was between his legs, I DID care that he clearly knew nothing about my case, or my child and that I would complain about anyone who spoke down to me. She was somewhat sheepish and noone ever turned up again

The sad things is that although we managed to see it through I was at huge risk and did experience nasty PND , had they been a bit more sensible I'm sure they could have helped
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@KRAmum Yes she probably did. I tell every single parent regardless of their ethnicity or background to avoid giving anything spicy. I have heard colleagues saying this also. It really is a common thing to say. Another poster has confirmed she is white and was told the same.

Mine was the one who spotted that my baby was failing to thrive. I didn't want to accept it. As far as I was concerned, nothing could be wrong as my latch was good, and my milk was abundant and I breastfeed on demand, night or day.

If I had had access to MN at the time I might well have been on here complaining of feeling patronised and humiliated.

Baby was still failing to thrive, though, and eventually ended up in hospital. I had so totally bought into the idea that breastfeeding had to work that I refused to believe that it wasn't.

Years later I found out that dd was disabled and breastfeeding was just one of many things affected. Come to think of it, the HV had tried to direct my attention towards a few other things too. But at least she got us into hospital when it mattered.

I am glad I didn't know she was optional. In the state I was in then I might well have sent her away and just sat there while dd grew weaker and weaker. I was well educated, particularly about breastfeeding (ooooh yes!), but I hadn't seen as many babies as she had.

I would be very unhappy if a male HV turned up to see me. I would feel very uncomfortable discussing breast feeding or showing him my stitches. I would refuse to engage at all. Gender does matter to me. The NHS may believe itself to be gender neutral but I imagine many people may disagree.

HV don’t show you how to breastfeed or look at your stitches.

It’s fine if you’d rather a female HV but don’t spread confusion.