to imagine recklessly that a 'self-catering' holiday will be anything other than forced labour for me now I am a Mum?

[Verso]

You can all pat me on the head now and say 'there, there', with the voice of experience.

Forgive me - DD is only two, so it's still a shock to find that the concept of 'holiday' now applies to her and DH only. When did the rules change? No one showed me the paperwork!

I will learn, no doubt!

Ooh, but I was (am?) bitter . Can anyone empathise?

But in time, in time!

They have vans in Holland and Spain and italy as well!

Some campsites in the UK have the big chalets as well (don't know about dishwashers though. Can't stand them myself.)

yes, policy, Dishwashers - over-rated, save us no time, create more noise.

Our last SC holiday went like this:

Breakfast, cooked, cereal and toast, all mucked in and helped with clearing up

Lunch, out for the day so got a meal out, pub lunch or similar

Tea/supper
Snack type stuff, Usually had bread/cheese/tins of beans etc in the caravan and fruit always available

I cleaned on the 4th day and the last day (had 8 days) but I got hubby to help cleaning and tidying up after himself and the kids as we went along

Verso - it does sound as if you and I have had similar seething experiences. If you have the energy, I do really encourage you to make something of it - as in, work out what was the very worst resentment-factor (sounds like it was the sorting out of unsettled child, rather than the cooking - eg?) & find an adjustment (to how you & dh deal generally) that deals with that.

(If you're thinking "easier said than done", then I'm with you there too - I thought it was an unfair double whammy to be the one to find solutions to the burden as well as having carried the burden, if you see what I mean - but I am so glad I did.)

I really do think that the intenseness of holiday was the first time dh grasped that basic basic nuclear-parenting-of-small-children equation: that if one of you is At Leisure then necessarily the other one is On Duty and NOT At Leisure. I had to bring this home to him by awful things like stating "You have now had one and a half hours reading on the balcony. I am now going for a swim for the same one and a half hours and the children are yours to look after." This led to the idea of alternate mornings and really we haven't looked back.

Really sympathise Verso - haven't read whole thread, but I must say my two are 6 and 4 and this is the first year I've felt really relaxed after a holiday. Before that I always enjoyed holidays - being somewhere different, doing different things - but definitely found it easier being at home. DH NEVER understood, but with the best will in the world I don't think men ever do as much as they think they are doing and as a SAHM it was never that much of a change for me. We always self-cater - being a hotel with the dcs is no holiday at all - much too restrictive - just have to accept life has changed.

I know. I know. Same old thing, different house.

Bink and Lilian (and all the others) thanks so much for your messages. Makes me feel much better to know I'm not alone, although it's rubbish that so many of us have been through this!

Bink - your advice is very sound re learning from the experience. It was odd in that it took me back to DD's first year, when DH and I almost split up because of him not 'helping' (grr - I hate that word - implies it's my duty and he is being a special martyr or something). We sorted that out, or so I'd thought - so it was a bit disconcerting to find that as soon as we were on 'holiday' everything was suddenly up to me!

Anyway - don't want to be too negative as he's a lovely man really - very kind and great with DD - just need to make sure we don't have the same experience again next year!

Thanks again, everyone.

P.S. It's BRILLIANT being back home!

I can understand where you are coming from. I've just said no to a weeks holiday with my husband, 5 week old baby (ours) my FIL and SIL and their partners. They wanted to go self-catering for a week in the middle of nowhere at the very top of Scotland and just to make it better the week would be mainly taken up with fishing and then eating said fish - not even any nice food to look forward to! And the journey there would take 10 hours without stops.
Husband thinks I am being mean for refusing to go - he can go by all means but it would be like some sort of endurance test NOT a holiday!

I don't think there's a lot you can do about it - I think you just have to put up with it until the children are older. The fact is looking after babies and especially toddlers is v hard work and its even harder when you're not in your own baby-proofed environment. You can try and pre-empt this with forward planning on a military scale, but that always left me wondering if the holiday was worth the stress beforehand - rather like the nights out where I would go into town to meet dh straight from the office - the stress of getting the children into bed and briefing the babysitter in time to meet him for the start of a film or whatever rather spoilt the effect for me (dh thought I was making a fuss about nothing, but of course the boot was never on the other foot!) It's so much better now they can more or less bath themselves while I get ready and then I just leave the babysitter to it and the same with holidays - it's just easier to look after them now wherever we are.

I remember going feckin loopy at some point in dd1's first two years when I realised that once I was a mum I didn't get a holiday. The awful realisation that it never stops almost finished me.

I was seething for weeks iirc. No one to blame even it is just how it is.

I always make a point of packing treats for dh and me....wine, nice food, and DVDs to watch when the kids have gone to bed.

But toddlers are hard work. and it does get better when they hit the 4 mark, or so

It is about preplanning, and lowering expectations/standards I think.

I do remember our first holiday with a baby and the fact that there's no let up, but we knew our holidays were important to us as a couple, so worked out how to try to make things better next time round.

Hey Verso. So with you on this one. I don't think SC holidays are holidays for mums when the kids are very small either.

Here's a story that might cheer you up:

When I was newly pregnant with DD2 (about 8 weeks) DH decided to take us all on our first ever caravan holiday. He hired a caravan to tow to Lake Como having booked accomodation on an Italian site.

DD1 (then 3) came down with a vile stomach bug in the middle of the night before we left.

DH insisted we go anyway.

On the ferry (DD1 still vomiting intermittently and very mardy) it became apparent that DS (12 months) had caught the same thing! Only in his case it was manifesting itself mainly at the other end iykwim.

We had an overnight stay in France but there was little time to do anything about the state of the clothes as DH wanted to make an "early start". (Each child having gone through about 5 outfits since we left home which had been hastily sluiced and stuck in a plastic bag "until we got there").

When we reached the appointed site in Italy I went straight to the site manager and asked to be shown the facilities for washing clothes. (You can imagine the state of the plasic bag by now as kids still honking and shi**ing!)

I was led to a large stone sink with one cold tap and a washboard!!!!!

I told DH in no uncertain terms that I was not going to deal with kids clothes in such a state under these conditions as it was supposed to be my holiday too He just smirked and said "look, we'll find a laundarette tomorrow if it's too much for you?!"

Next day we drove around and around with two mardy kids and a bag full of three day old shitty washing but couldn't find a laundarette anywhere. (Speaking to an Italian friend since, I gather they just don't do laundarettes!)

Returning to site DH asked if I wouldn't just give the washing facilities there a try?

I flipped big time! I sat cross legged on the floor and refused to budge or lift another finger to do anything until DH hooked up the caravan and drove over the border into Switzerland where I knew we would be able to find a camp site with better facilities.

He gave in, but not with very good grace, and I got it in the neck for the rest of the fortnight (and longer)about just how much it was costing him!

In my experience, it makes a HUGE difference when you go away with other people with kids of similar ages, or to places that really cater for little kids. We went on holiday recently with five other families, all of whom have toddlers (we rented two barns that adjoined each other). I had more time off in that week than I've had in the previous four years put together. Plus, in the evenings we took turns to cook each other dinner, so we had a ready-made dinner-party-cum-drinking-session every night.

Also, I do it Bink's way (and always have, since DS1 was first born): if DP has an hour off to do something that he wants to do, then I have an hour off afterwards. When we went on the holiday described above, I was truly amazed at how much all the mums did, and how much sitting around all the dads did. My DP looked like an absolute paragon in comparison - but only because I've never let him get away with anything less than 50 per cent of the childcare, bf-ing excluded.

Totally agree with policywonk - the best way to do s/c holidays with young children is with other people... that way you can take turns with chores and the children are more likely to keep each other entertained. The pressure to keep your eye on them at all times is somewhat lessened and when it does get stressful it's comforting to know you're not the only one going round the bend!

I am lucky though; my fab sil and her dp choose to come away with us because they (well my sil!) love our children so much - they help with all the childcare, even the early mornings, so it really is like a break for us!

But I have to admit, the realisation that my next truly relaxing holiday probably won't be for another eighteen years was a shock and a half... I think I got v angry too about it being so unfair and now I've just sucumbed (sp?) to the idea of camping and s/c cottages for the foreseeable future!

I'm completely full of sympathy! Have had 2 s/c holidays from hell.
1st in Portugal when dd was 6mths. No real holiday as she wouldn't sleep in her buggy so had to go back to room for sleeps. Also the cot provided when we got there at 3am was like you would find in a Rumanian orphanage. ( metal, wide bars, chipped paint.)
2nd was a villa in Spain with 3 levels of concrete steps not evident from the booking photo! ( Not good with dd at 15mths) Also took DP to help so we could get a break. No chance as went for shower and met dd half way up spiral staircase, DM in kitchen!!

Agree with the going away with other people.

I get on really well with my ILs and we went away with them and some of the extended family.

S/c but kitchen is stocked with sharp knives and loads of equipment (excluding food processor) and cooker/hob/microwave. Also had washer/dryer and dishwasher. And a good bbq in garden.

Ds had plenty of attention and we shared the cooking in the evening and either ate out at lunch or chucked salad/cheese/meat in hamper and grabbed fresh bread when we were out. Breakfast was cereal/toast/yoghurts.

Had fantastic holiday and came home with practically no washing.

And MIL got up with ds every morning so we could have lie in.

Was fantastic.

Armadillo you're really lucky
Actually we are considering asking MIL instead next time as I get on better with her than my own parents.

I know. It's fab

MAkes all the difference.

I've never really been a big fan of holidays, but dp's parents really know how to holiday (unlike mine - who think resting/relaxing/extra sleep is wasting time )

Basically, lying on the beach reading a novel is out for the next ten to fifteen years. But think how fantastically small your carbon footprint will be!

I so understand verso, as I felt exactly the same when ds was young (he is now 6 and holidays are much more realaxing now!)

One of the problems is that my dh also doesn't help much, and doesn't realise that if he has had ages reading a book etc, then I have been looking after ds. I remember going away when ds was 5 months old with dh and the ILs. I get on very well with the ILs, but I still remember that every day I was up at about 6am, and everyone else came downstairs at about 9, and sat around having a relaxing breakfast while I was still trying to entertain ds. They all kept on about how nice it was to have a lovely realxing holiday, and I kept thinking "what holiday?"

It's so much better now ds is older, as he can entertain himself a lot more, and we also try to go to places with shared facilities, so there will be other children around for him to play with (better for him and for us). Also, dh is more willing to spend time with him now he is older, as he is more interesting IYKWIM.

My parents are all for resting! Thats the problem, they never got up with dd so we never got a lie in. They babysat 1 night in 10 days. The rest of the time we ended up having to take dd with us at night. This didn't work as she doesn't sleep in a pram at all. So she just got more and more tired, ended up going back to 2 naps per day so it bd the days up.