What are the main identifiers of those who describe themselves as lower middle classes?

[Rosehip10]

As distinct from middle/upper middle.

I’m always told I’m posh.

Private school, pony etc. Master’s degree. Professional job.
DH is grammar school, now a military officer.

Lived in married quarters but also rent out two properties.

No one has mentioned Nan Nanna or Nanny yet. All very WC, and before anyone disputes this, the Queen is well known to be a Granny.

My working class DM has my graduation picture on her wall. People are proud of their DCs achievements that's all.

"To me, anyone actually claiming to be 'lower middle class' is solidly working class but doesn't like the idea."

Not the case for me at all. I don't mind if people call me working class, it's hardly a massive insult.

People take seemingly random and unconnected behaviours and interests and claim that they are definitely associated with one particular class like Doob illustrates.

Agree with this.

There is definite social inequality & over representation of privately educated kids in certain industries but I think it's far too simplistic to judge/label someone based on whether they like ballet or use the toilet. Also why judge in the first place? Until I joined MNs in my 30s I had no idea people would think less of me for saying lounge.

The only people immune to the class system in England are artists
Immigrants too, no? I certainly benefitted from having a very strong non-native accent, which apparently puts me outside British class restrictions.

Immigrants too, no?
I also confuse people, home counties/almost RP accent (from English as a second language videos) but actually grew up quite poor.

Class markers are hard to guess with us foreigners eg, I can ski (badly) but so can pretty much everyone in my town in Italy as we live halfway up an alp and get taken for school PE in winter!

I certainly benefited from having a very strong non-native accent

I have been told that I sound like the Queen.

By Australians

Very sociological!

I suppose my in laws were 'lower middle class', my parents 'upper working class'; husband & I were 'lower middle class'.

Do people usually pigeonhole themselves in that way?

Until I joined MNs in my 30s I had no idea people would think less of me for saying lounge.

It’s pearl clutcher central on here.

"Immigrants too, no?"

You can usually tell an immigrant's class. At least with other Europeans it's quite simple. Might be harder for people from very different cultures.

Lower middle class are people who rely on a salary to live, they have not got big assets which provide a steady income stream in their own right. Middle class are people who have independent means and are not reliant on an employer or a monthly wage. They can live comfortably not working and if they work, it is not to make a living, but to enhance life, enhance their wealth etc.

Most professionals are lower middle class, bar ones with family assets and sizeable inheritances.

I would say the vast majority of people termed “middle class“ are actually lower middle class.

Gwenhwyfar
I don't find the class system exists to the same extent in many European countries. I have titled nobility on one side and proper peasants on the other, both made equal in the communist times, and myself don't see one side as superior to the other.

"Middle class are people who have independent means and are not reliant on an employer or a monthly wage. They can live comfortably not working and if they work, it is not to make a living, but to enhance life, enhance their wealth etc."

No, I disagree with that. Middle class doesn't mean wealthy.

Lower middle class are people who rely on a salary to live, they have not got big assets which provide a steady income stream in their own right.

Well that was a lot easier for previous generations in terms of buying up property. A person earning 100k in London today could easily have less assets then their older neighbour who may never have earned more than 25k.

"I don't find the class system exists to the same extent in many European countries. "

Maybe not, but it does still exist and is often quite noticeable.
Of course, some countries are more equal than others, but you can take a country like France where there was a revolution and royalty and aristocracy got rid of in theory and there are still quite big class differences.
In this scene, a guy from the rough suburbs realises he has to sit through 4 hours of a tree singing in German with his upper middle class boss:

What class do you belong to if you sometimes say serviette, sometimes napkin, sometimes sofa, sometimes settee, sometimes lounge, sometimes living room, sometimes toilet and sometimes loo?

gwenhwyfar I have a Swedish friend who was looked down upon by colleagues in Sweden because of the university he went to. He is an extremely intellectual, well-educated man but didn't go to the right university, so was frequently pushed out of the circle, passed over etc. He came to Britain, and has done very well, as he is very clever, hard working, and in a specialised field. Many Swedes will tell you that schools all over Sweden are excellent and it doesn't matter which one attends... except that it does. Norway seems to be similar, my brother has found- he moved back to Scotland where at least he could see/understand people's prejudices.

If you are comfortable in your own skin and don't give a fuck it becomes wholly irrelevant! If others judge they should become wholly irrelevant because they are in a class of their own known as prats.

What one person thinks is classy another doesn't.

I'm old enough to remember grubby babies in orams outside shops. We've all moved on and with have everyone's expectations about quality of life.

Sweden still has monarchy. I’m not sure how equal/class-blind a country can be if you have the upper class.

I’d also say, that once you’ve been brain washed in Britain, you do notice different classes on the continent but people in some countries will be totally oblivious to the whole thing.

3 piece cream leather suites

I agree the class system still matters in this country. It’s not about simply using the right words, it’s about opportunity. I am a lawyer, my parents were LMC from a WC background. I was the first person to go to university etc.
I have been successful, high income, dc in private school, member of clubs etc. Like opera, classical music, dc play rugby. Some independent income. So MM/UMC.
I have done some mentoring of people who want to go to university or enter the legal profession and the knowledge gaps are huge about how the system works. It’s not that they don’t know how to open the door, they don’t even know where the door is. MM/UMC/UC are halfway up the stairs to the next opportunity whilst others can’t find the way in.

Have a look at the Sutton Trust research. Class distinctions in access to opportunities still exist
www.suttontrust.com/

Class as in self identifying is cultural and mor to do with mindset. Opera and ballet tickets are can be had for a lot less than soccer tickets, especially premier or first division. Vegetables and fruit bought frozen or fresh are a lot cheaper than readymeals.
What you call the meal you eat in the middle of the day or evening is irrelevant.

Yes social inequality exists and should be addressed. We make a lot of prejudged assessments on others though and if not social status then percieved education plays a part rightly or wrongly. Example - training in child abuse the inital question is "does child abuse happen only in one subgroup? " answer no, in every group - so why do we not see as many middle lass parents being charged as we do underclass/benefits class/working class.....

We applaud rightly women who strive to success in male dominated fields - but less so males who succeed in female domianted areas. We applaud the former working class person who reaches high in academia or politics, but less so the public school educated social worker or nurse.

We are told that people die due to poverty - we are not told that it is sometimes due to poverty of ambition, education and thought, and are misled to feel it is financial poverty.

My dad is LMC I reckon - came from a working class family but made it to the middle class by becoming a vicar and put on some airs to go with the new status (he was always telling us we needed to show some "finesse"!!). Mum being foreign falls outside the British class structure but says things like lounge and settee because she picked up those words from dad.

I say lounge still, sometimes toilet sometimes loo, sometimes tea sometimes dinner, it's all a jumble.