What are the main identifiers of those who describe themselves as lower middle classes?

[Rosehip10]

As distinct from middle/upper middle.

TabbyMumz I know a lot of people with kids at Marlborough - who understand the class markers - and would not think of themselves as Upper Class.

And accent is not always an indicator of class. Margaret Thatcher was lower-middle-class and had elocution lessons.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Carol Middleton used to say Pardon although I expect she's learned not to now.

Of course you can be upper class without a title. The UC includes the peerage, sure, but also the landed gentry, who might be wealthier than peers but were commoners with substantial estates.

And look at families like the van Cutsems — no titles, but they intermarry with the Grosvenors, Astor’s and other titled families, and are close friends with several generations of the royal family. Various reciprocal godparent relationships, and there’s a succession of Van Cutsem children as flower girls or page boys at royal weddings.

The Van Custems do not directly have a title but are descended from people who did, as the vast majority of the landed gentry are. That makes them upper class because they are from titled stock.

So titled or from titled stock makes you upper class not wealth.

Never met anybody who described themselves by 'class'.

"No, you can't be upper class without a title in the family."
Yes you can. In my opinion.

Remember the fuss at the time about William marrying a member of the middle classes?
Yes, it was a load of nonsense to sell papers...there is absolutely no way the Middletons are middle class. In my opinion.

"Oh and you can be upper class without wealth or significant income!"
Yes, you can. I agree on that one.
"Trust me, you are wrong.". Trust me, I am not. In my opinion.

The Middletons are new money. They are from a working class background only a couple of generations back and happened to start a very successful business. They are not upper class or even upper middle, just rich.

Your opinion is not valid.

The Middleton's are middle class, they don't have a title and don't come from titled stock.

David Cameron doesn't have a title, but is upper class because of his ancestry, Boris Johnson although from a wealthy family, does not have titled stock so is upper middle class
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The van Cutsems are 19th c Catholic immigrants from Dutch/Flemish landed gentry Jonkheer stock — the equivalent in England wouldn’t be titled. In the Netherlands, Jonkheere are commoners.

There’s no way the Middletons are upper class. Carole was a secretary and he was a pilot. They had the good fortune to make a lot of money but That doesn’t change their class. Carole is working class, Michael is middle class. The kids had an upper middle class upbringing due to their money.

You wouldn’t call Wayne Rooney upper class? He’s minted!

"Your opinion is not valid."
How rude are you? Of course my opinion is valid. How would you like it if I said your opinion is not valid? Everyone's opinion is valid, because it is their opinion. Your opinion is not better than anyone elses.

"The Middleton's are middle class, they don't have a title and don't come from titled stock."
No they are not. Try googling her father, and his grandfather, they are upper class. Even his grandmother went to Roedean. A lot is made of him "simply" being a pilot. There is a lot more to it than that. Generations of his family went to top boarding schools. Not all in upper class have a title.

David Cameron doesn't have a title, but is upper class because of his ancestry, Boris Johnson although from a wealthy family, does not have titled stock so is upper middle class
Sure you said earlier you cant be in upper class if you dont have a title, so this new comment is confusing?
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"Michael is middle class"
Try googling him. You will see that his family has been extremely well off for generations. The story that he is middle class us a myth.

The Middleton children had trust funds from Grandparents for their school fees , yes their parents made money but he certainly was not poor . The family historically owned land at Lupton in Leeds.

Michael Middletons Grandmother was an heiress. "Trust funds had been established from the fortunes of Michael Middleton's grandmother - heiressOlive Middleton(1881–1936), a member of theLupton family. Olive was a boarder atRoedean[102][103]and was accepted to study atCambridge University.[104]Olive's husband was Richard Noel Middleton (1878–1951), a solicitor who had "met and married the aristocrat" "

There is a massive difference though between the upper middles and the rest of the middle class. It is pointless to pretend that the additional wealth doesn’t change things. A family of teachers on 50-60k is obviously going to be leading a different life to multimillionaires who have trust funds but no titles.

The snobbery around the Middletons was ridiculous- just look at her father’s ancestry.

Heres another fact......."Michael Middleton, the father of the Duchess of Cambridge, was born into a wealthy family with ties to the Britisharistocracy.[24][25]His family had entertained members of theBritish royal familyin Leeds from the 1920s.[26][27][28]Shortly before his daughter marriedPrince William, Duke of Cambridge, in April 2011, he was granted acoat of armsas thearmigeroushead of the family."[1]

Ties to the aristocracy doesn't mean you come from titled stock.

They came from solicitors, oooh middle class.

SamCam is from a titled family so David gets the benefit of that. Her father is a hereditary Baronet and her step father is Viscount Astor

The Royal courtiers used to joke about Carole Middleton saying toilet rather than lavatory

"malylis

Ties to the aristocracy doesn't mean you come from titled stock.

They came from solicitors, oooh middle class."

They come from aristocracy. Kate and William are distant cousins, she has links with the Queen Mother for goodness sake. Accept when you are wrong.

The Lupton family weren't aristocrats (didn't have titles).

The queen mother connection is by someone who married into the Bowes family generations back, it doesn't mean they are descended from aristocracy (and therefore not upperclass)

"Reports suggest that Catherine and the Queen Mother's blood cousinship was the reason Catherine wore the Queen Mother'stiarawhen she wed Prince William"

Danny Dyer is related to Edward III and the sister of Jane Seymour. He is not upper class.

May lis....you seem to say on the one hand that you are only upper class if you have a title or are descended from titles stock, but on the other hand state Boris is upper class even though he isn't?

You can't be upper class without a title
I thought similar of Middle class. I thought you must come from professional parents.
My Dsis is an accountant she owns 4 properties with her DH, my friend completed a master's she is a vice president of a large company, I don't consider them middle class. They grew up around here doing all the thing WC DC did. they may consider themselves LMC in certain circles but they are not
I consider LMC or MC those who grew up in fairly affluent areas, naturally spoke with good grammar well spoken, wore a blazer to school and never worried as a child if they'd have enough food this week.
You can't class like you can't change gender.
Our old neighbour was MC poor as anyone due to illness though a true mc lady everyday.

You can become middle class, in fact going to university used to be regarded as the catalyst of change.