What are the main identifiers of those who describe themselves as lower middle classes?

[Rosehip10]

As distinct from middle/upper middle.

I want to know what class my partner and I are?

Me: State school, Business Studies Degree, Special Projects Manager, Guardian reader, Remain voter. Toilet, sofa (with only 2 cushions on it) mortgage on small 3 bed terrace. Interests: Books, films, sci-fi.

H: Boarding school, Maths Degree, IT Professional, online news only via BBC, Remainer, Says toilet/loo, napkin, sofa. Interests: video games, poker, building small models.

What class are we? I don’t think I’ve ever thought about it that much before, but would be interested to know the MN consensus.

(I think I am working class, as my family are blue collar workers and no education. I think partner is middle class as his family are all professionals.)

Note: Shared mortgage / house. Not just mine.

Just after reading page 1 - we actually call what you call "napkins", serviettes where I am from. Any class at all. Napkins are nappies or things you tie around your neck lol

So are teaching and nursing professions rather than vocations? I think the latter and would include social workers and civil servants up to and including grade 7/6.

What about vicars?

I'm from old money but grandparents and mother have spent it all (well nearly) due in part to punitive tax rates in the 70s and mother's serial husband and lavish lifestyle habit.

I dropped out of uni but earnt a bob or three in the City before DC and took prof quals in my 40s when they were at school.

DH went to the local comp, then Oxford. Son of a teacher and engineer who respectively were the DC of a miner and carpenter. DH got to the top of his profession. DH's money funds our lifestyle - the lifestyle is what I was brought up to expect though to be fair I cd have achieved much of it alone.

We therefore are a bit of a hybrid. DC would be horrified to think of themselves as UC.

A lot of people had a little sneer when I married DH.

Ofgs, when did people start using lower class instead of working class?

@Baguetteaboutit they're different things, no?

Some people are using lower class and working class interchangeably. Tbf, I was despairing at poppycity's post in particular.

I think the annoying thing is that because the middle classes have a good amount of cultural capital they are well represented in these debates in academic texts and in the media. There's a good grasp about what it means to be lower-middle, middle-middle and upper-middle because they know who they are and what they are not and what counts as the difference between them.

In contrast the working class are considered some amorphous mass. With no qualifications about the differences between the incomes among them, their aspirations and their hobbies and interests.

On this thread the working class has become the catch-all for every unfavourable stereotype going and as far as I can see is a depository for everything that the middle classes considered 'other'.

I th

You can't be upper class without being from a titled family.

Hence all of the stuff about Kate Middleton being middle class. Even though her parents are multimillionaires and she went to Marlborough.

@Baguetteaboutit - despite sharing what I received in a sociology lecture about the classes, I agree. Having said that I think when defining there is a very big difference for those distinguishing between working and lower. Lower often doesn't work, whereas working class is usually synonymous with lower paying jobs.

One side of our family is from lower class, one side middle class. I think our own unit is somewhere between lower middle and middle. Probably more lower middle class tbh.

There are untitled blue blooded people, malylis.

mike when I complete my phd next year, will that elevate me somehow?

Lower class= unemployed.
Working class = employed.

What are students?

HatRack, students are students. In terms of mature students, the ones that seem to be perceived to be middle class don’t live off benefits in a council property. Instead, they saved up to take a sabbatical, live in a property their own and pay their way with their savings. Usually work whilst doing a degree too.

The term "working class" didnt necessarily mean employed. Often the husband was employed, but the wife was not. The Wife was still classed as working class.

@malylis Kate Middleton was middle class. The Duchess of Wherever is Royal family and top echelons of the upper classes.

Kate Middletkn was never Middle class. Her family were way up there with the upper class. I'd say probably lower upper class, the only difference being they didnt have titles. They were extremely well off and all their children went to the very top end of private schools.

I say pardon... because that’s polite? I also say toilet, bathroom or loo. Depends what kind of mood I am in.

But I think I’m working class, I’m not actually sure.

You can't be upper class without a title.

The Middleton's don't have one and don't come a from families that do.

They weren't upper class.

Also, the Middletons were a pilot and a stewardess who started a very successful business that afforded them and their children a privileged lifestyle. In England, that would never be considered upper class.

Malylis is absolutely right.

And there's no such thing as 'lower-upper class'. It's Upper Middle.

But I'd say the Middletons were probably middle-middle. I'd like to know if Kate was brought up to say What or Pardon?

"You can't be upper class without a title."
Of course you can. Marlborough, where the Middletons went to school is jam packed with upper class children. Probably only 2 per cent of them have titles. Same at Gordonstoun, Benendon etc.

Of course there can be lower upper class. Every class can have a lower end, middle end and upper end. So there will be a lower upper, middle upper and top end upper (whatever you want to call it.) Just like there will be a lower middle, middle middle and upper middle. There are no rules here, it's just a way of describing where on the scale people might be. Trust me, middle class people dont send their kids to Marlborough.

"I'd like to know if Kate was brought up to say What or Pardon?" Have you heard the way she speaks? She's posher than the Queen.

The Middletons are upper middle class, no doubt about that. They're more 'Cazalets' than 'Downton'. Now Kate is the Duchess of Cambs she is above class.

No, you can't be upper class without a title in the family.

Remember the fuss at the time about William marrying a member of the middle classes?

Oh and you can be upper class without wealth or significant income!

Trust me, you are wrong.