There’s no point being a moral vegetarian unless you’re prepared to be vegan

[aveline161]

If you care about animal welfare/ dislike the idea of animals dying for food, you should acknowledge the horrors of the dairy industry and go vegan

@1Morewineplease aside from the rest of your post... how about reducing? Could go to one high welfare meat meal a week and switching to black tea / plant milk in your coffee rather than dairy milk, and then reassessing after a month or so and see if you could go longer. It's not full vegetarianism or veganism, but it's still a big old reduction in emissions for someone who currently freely eats meat and dairy.

Admittedly not a focus on animals rights in this case, but for me at the moment it's about getting my own personal emissions down ASAP.

But OP why are you bending yourself in knots trying to gain some sort of superior high ground?

Just accept that you are doing the best you can do in your current circumstances and get on with your life. Why do you need some sort of badge that says that you are actually more superior according to some arbitrary standard you set yourself?

I see vegetarianism as being a stepping stone to veganism. That's how we transitioned, slowly over a matter of months. Now it's like second nature being vegan and can't fault it smile it's certainly not restrictive!

That's nice dear.

OP why do you care what other people eat? It's none of your business.

(Oh and the idea that you are claiming some sort of ethical (vegan) brownie points for the way you have lived your life for a couple of years, claiming to be better than some vegetarians who haven’t touched meat for decades ... you’ve got a long way to go!)

YABU. It’s not a competition.

All or nothing my arse. I used to be vegan..no longer as my tunnel vision was damaging.

I don't drink cows milk or eat eggs and I'm vegetarian but I'm not going to give up cheese to become a Vegan.

Stupid viewpoint op as vegetarians are still causing less harm than meat eaters and it should be about harm reduction that works best for your life.

Anyway I don't eat meat because of animal welfare as much as because I just hate it and always have done.

YABU. So much vegan alternatives contain palm oil, yards of plastic and processing. I’m a veggie but I but I but my cheese from local farms where the cows are happy and looked after by nice farmers. Also, vegan cheese tastes like liquid ass.

I would rather eat meat then dairy. The dairy industry is shockingly cruel and you are literally drinking pus in your tea. Madness!!!

I've been veggie for 30 years and agree with you. I'd like to be vegan but at the same time I'm not that committed to completely changing my diet, not at the moment anyway. Doing some good is better than doing non at all.

@pooboobsleeprepeat

I disagree with you general comment about the dairy industry, but would like to hear what exactly you mean by “literally drinking pus in your tea”. Milk is not pus.

I'm 99% vegan because it's very difficult to be 100%. I still have some make-up and shoes that aren't vegan, but I'm not throwing them out because I hate waste.

Some vegan food is processed, just like non-vegan food, but most of my diet is healthy - vegan curry, chilli, jacket potato, salad, sandwiches, dal, pasta, cous cous and rice dishes, roasted veg, fruit, nuts etc. I also eat a few vegan meat products and the occasional bit of cheese, but this is less than 5% of my diet, which is fine I think.

I was a vegetarian for 35 years before becoming vegan. I won't ever go back. It's too easy to be vegan nowadays.

I think it’s completely true that vegan is the most ethical choice. I may get there completely one day.

In the meantime, I’ve been vegetarian for more than a quarter of a century. People who’ve been vegans for six months have a long long way to go.

You are 100% right, but I absolutely hate the shit vegetarians get from vegans. I’ve seen it in various online groups I’m in and it’s pathetic. Doing something for the animals/ environment is better than doing nothing. Also, ‘ethical’ vegetarians will be much more open to discussion and education about the horrors of the dairy industry. It’s so much easier these days to give up dairy with all the various cheeses and milks on the market. Screeching at vegetarians that they aren’t good enough or doing enough doesn’t help. You catch more flies with (vegan) honey than vinegar.

I understand your point and agree to an extent, but it’s just inaccurate to say there is ‘no point’ to being vegetarian. It reduces meat consumption and that is a good thing for the animals involved and the world. Being vegan would be better of course, but life isn’t always so clear cut. I’d like to be vegan but my veggie kids love eggs and cheese and I am not cooking different meals. It’s not perfect but I’m happy with the bits we can do.

I agree with @trixiebelden77, there are some newly converted and very vocal vegans about who would do well to give some respect to the vegetarians who have spent decades paving the way for their way of eating to become mainstream. There are a lot of short term vegans jumping on the bandwagon and it's fairly easy to do these days. There wasn't the range of products available even ten years ago to make being vegan a realistic choice for many people. All posts like the OPs will do is make people who might have been considering vegetarianism think oh, what's the point, and just continue as they are.

Vegan food is highly processed crap.

This is nonsense. You’re judging a whole lifestyle based on the junk food alternatives. It’s like saying omnivorous food is all shit because of rustlers burgers.

Proper cooked from scratch vegan meals are no more highly processed than non vegan ones.

You talk of morality. I'm vegetarian I am fully aware of the dairy industry and eat a mainly vegan diet. I don't eat meat as it makes me feel sick thinking of animals being slaughtered and eating their flesh, dairy doesn't have the same impact on me though I do feel guilt on occasion. The country I live in is difficult to live in as a vegan. Lastly I am at peace with my choice and it pisses me off when I get told I'm what expected to eat and why. Mind your own business.

@14Seeingadistance the pus in milk is the white blood cells from infection. Dairy cows often have mastitis. They're totally abused

I understand your point and used to think being a vegetarian was illogical.
But there are benefits to the planet from reduced meat eating so I am less critical now.
(Although expressing for twins has given me huge sympathy for dairy cows)

I am a vegetarian. I have been for 30+ years.

I started primarily because meat just really doesn’t agree with me.
Terrible indigestion and stomach aches after every tome I ate meat.

Secondly because I don’t actually like meat. Was brought up having meat in my meals at least once per day. I found it didn’t really taste nice and it was so chewy.

I don’t eat dairy as it brings me out in hives and I only eat eggs when friend brings her excess eggs round. (She has her own chickens)

I could go vegan quite easily.

I think if someone is going to reduce their meat intake then I think that is great.

If they are going from meat eating to vegetarianism then that is also great

It is like stepping stones.
If once they have got used to being vegetarianism they go vegan the odd day then I don’t think it is to be sneered at

I don’t get these threads which say if you don’t become fully vegan overnight it isn’t worth you bothering.

Better to have a population of vegetarians who might try veganism for a few days a month than put off people before try it

Both are cruel, but giving up meat is a step in the right direction at least; it's really stupid to say that it has to be all or nothing.

I agree with you. The dairy industry is the more brutal, so I no longer view vegetarianism as the epitome of virtuosity.

I never viewed vegetarianism as an epitome of virtuosity either.

But it is a start