There’s no point being a moral vegetarian unless you’re prepared to be vegan

[aveline161]

If you care about animal welfare/ dislike the idea of animals dying for food, you should acknowledge the horrors of the dairy industry and go vegan

@MidnightCircus believe me, if you'd told me two years ago I'd be vegan now I'd have laughed in your face. While eating KFC. I have said those exact words, "it's not for me".

I believe it's not restrictive in that there's nothing I miss, and nothing we haven't replaced with a vegan alternative. It's more effort at first, and more cooking from scratch, but that can only be a good thing surely? We definitely eat better and more varied than we used to, and my vitamin levels have never been so good (I get semi-regular bloods done due to my underactive thyroid (diagnosed pre-veganism) and pregnancy). So our health definitely hasn't suffered either.

I think everyone has the potential to be vegan and thrive on a vegan diet. It'll never happen though - at least not in my lifetime - because people are too set in their ways, and there's too much money in meat.

Hmm vegetarians you’re just not being ethical enough so you either go the whole hog or chomp on a bleeding steak? I mean why bother trying at all if it’s an all or nothing situation?

Well, that's great aliensprig I meant restrictive in that you restrict certain foods. Which is not the same as not being a good diet, or that it can cause harm. But it does require discipline, so it's not for everybody. I'm glad it works for you though!

Sorry, I’m a meat eater and will be until I die. Humans are designed to be omnivorous and that means they will eat meat amongst many other things. However I only eat free range meat, preferably organic. And I prefer to know exactly the provenance of the meat ie which farm raised it etc. One of our local butchers kills the animals and knows exactly where they came from, and that is a total bonus imo.

I will take my hat off to any vegan who has managed it for ten years +
I'm not interested in being preached at by anyone who's done this for a year or two. It's like those people who are evangelical about how much weight they've lost with sliming world - come back and see me in a a year or two.

Bother so the last 33 years as a veggie have been a waste of time. I eat vegan a lo
t more now but don't think I'll ever completely give up dairy.oh why did I bother......

Is that OP's assertion, "don't bother" ?

I'm Off to do yet more selfish oxygen thieving.

@captainmycaptain not if sexed semen is used

If it does good, why does it have to be all or nothing?

I don’t understand vegans who do this. Surely they must realise that being an aggressive judgy cunt to people isn’t going to make them change their lifestyle?

Surely everyone doing something should be encouraged and if people take baby steps towards a more sustainable and ethical lifestyle then that is definitely a good thing?

Or do you really just want to feel like a superior twat?

You can be whatever you like.
As as PP said, its harm reduction.

not everyone has the moral strength to be perfect.

so everyone who can't be perfect should give themselves over to the dark side. no wishy washy shades of grey.

Jesus said the best way to be a Christian is to sell every possession you have and give every penny to the poor. so anyone who can't manage to follow that teaching should give themselves to satanism.

yeah. but nope.

All the milk alternatives are in very hard to recycle cartons. I weighed up the options and thought it was overall better for the planet and more sustainable to have milk delivered in glass that can be reused. Preaching at others for their choices will make you no friends.

Where do you draw the line? No point being vegan unless you reject all medical interventions that were developed using animals at some point or another?

And of course, anyone who has looked into the dairy industry in any detail will know it's far crueller than the beef industry.

This.

YANBU. I don't think though that it is necessary to go vegan, but it does seem hypocritical to not eat meat because it is cruel, but then consume dairy.

YANBU
I think if people visited a dairy farm their thoughts might change.

Calves are taken from their mother at one day old, they call for one another but calves are not allowed to mix with any adult cows at all as they will drink the milk. They're just babies being left entirely on their own. Some cows also don't get to go outside their whole lives, no grass, no fields.
It's really sad for a cup of tea to be honest.

I made the switch to free range milk, and consciously consume much less dairy after seeing a dairy farm. I know I should cut it out altogether.

And 100% of those calves will be taken from their mothers within days of their birth. Not 100% but I take your point. I'm not vegetarian and would like to eat UK humanely reared veal, ie kept with their mother for longer, rather than have them exported live.

And of course, anyone who has looked into the dairy industry in any detail will know it's far crueller than the beef industry.
Agreed

Dutchesss but that’s not what the OP has said - they’ve basically said if you don’t stop eating dairy there’s no point in even trying to cut down. Which is fucking ridiculous.

If you’re a vegan you shouldn’t be inhaling vegetarians and meat eaters ass gas as there are remnants of dairy and dead animals in the fart particles which you’re not only breathing in but swallowing.

If rubber is vegan I suggest you buy gas masks.

Hi all, thank you so much. There have been some fascinating comments and facts. I am not currently morally vegan. This AIBU was the result of a debate at home. Background being I have not eaten dairy or eggs for a couple of years now as I’ve been breastfeeding a very allergic child, who interestingly is also allergic to a couple of vegan staples (coconut and most nuts, plus gets pretty poorly if exposed to intense soy). So our diets have been restricted, but I/ we eat meat. So my point being, I have found it more than possible to live ‘vegan’ plus meat (complete nonsense sentence I know). I tend to agree with the posters saying eat higher welfare meat and dairy in serious moderation. Hope I can translate this into real life when it come to it.

I suppose I’m saying...maybe it’s better to avoid mass produced dairy and eat higher welfare meat? As some PP have said more eloquently

If you can’t be utterly perfect and morally exemplary then don’t bother? That’s effectively what you’re saying?

Therefore no one bother recycling, taking the bus rather than car occasionally, choosing more local holidays or taking their own reusable bags. Because you’re not even touching the surface of the actual problem so DONT BOTHER.

where in fact, just doing your best, when you can, with what resources you have will always be a million times better than doing nothing.

Whilst those who profess to be morally superior (for many reasons not just vegetarians) and make a big show of it then go completely against the point and make choices which are totally counterproductive could be seen to be a bit silly, they are still making better choices than most.

I’ve been vegetarian over half of my life, there have been episodes where I’ve eaten meat occasionally and times that I’ve bought a leather bag. I don’t profess to be perfect or a saint or superior, I just don’t want to digest dead things. I’m just doing my best, with what I’ve got and how my life is at any given time.

Veganism is relatively new. Much of vegans’ food is very highly processed, much more than many meat based products.
Argentina has devoted much of its rainforest land to soya production in order to meet the demand for nouveau-vegans.
Bamboo related products need appalling amounts of environmentally unfriendly chemicals to produce cups, cutlery, clothes etc....
Vegan food is highly processed crap.
I applaud the lifestyle of true vegans who embrace a holistic and environmentally friendly approach to their food and wish that I was brave enough to follow.
Alas I have no time for vegans who slavishly devour environmentally unfriendly shite like vegan sausage rolls, vegan burgers and vegan everything else. I’d never eat a vegan brownie which has a shelf life of six months!
If you’re vegan , just eat veg and stop expecting vast production plants to produce replicas of the meat based food that you miss.

I agree.

I'm a fully signed up meat eater. I'm a hill farmer. Our sheep live completely free range, their lambs are killed at around a year old (approx 50kgs) and have lived an entirely grass fed and carefree life.

Our suckler (beef) calves go for fattening (and slaughter a few months later from there) somewhere between 15 - 30 months old depending on breed. They stay with their mothers until they go.

I find vegetarianism hypocritical and I despair of people who 'only' eat chicken as if it's some kind of high welfare meat.

Eat what you like, but if you really care about animal welfare then skipping high welfare red meat on welfare grounds whilst continuing to eat eggs, milk, cheese and other dairy products is just crazy.