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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was I involved in this car accident? (attempt 2)

253 replies

Chefwifelife · 20/12/2019 20:12

I was at the bottom of a hill turning right onto a main road. Turned right when clear then heard a loud noise. Looked in my mirror to see a wing mirror shattering and debris in the air. Pull over a little way up the road and go and see if I can help.

The lady is really shaken up. I ask what happened and she tells me that she just looked up and I was in front of her!

There is zero damage to my car. I have checked it three times but can only find mud BlushShe has damage to her drivers wing mirror and drivers front wheel arch.

I’ve rung my insurance company, and they have got the information on file ready but it just all seems a bit bizarre.

Anyone been in a similar situation?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Teateaandmoretea · 22/12/2019 07:47

I don't think you hit her. I think you pulling out in front of her made her swerve to avoid you. Which is still your action causing the accident.

Morally yes in law/liability no. You are not involved if your car isn't hit. I know someone who once ended up in a ditch because a tractor pulled out of a field and he swerved to avoid it. It was his fault not the tractor driver's even though the only other option was to hit the tractor and he clearly had right of way.

Original poster
Chefwifelife · 22/12/2019 08:01

I just wanted to add that as you can see on the pic the bollard is in this distance from the junction.

Was I involved in this car accident? (attempt 2)
OP posts:
Original poster
Chefwifelife · 22/12/2019 08:03

And actually looking at the pic I need to correct a previous comment. There are only two lanes at the bottom of the hill so traffic has to queue to go left or right at the bottom of the hill.

OP posts:
MRex · 22/12/2019 09:54

Definitely bollards then. Send the photo to your insurer if you hear any more about it.

DeRigueurMortis · 22/12/2019 12:23

You need to go look at the bollards OP and see if there is evidence of an accident - impact, silver paint and debris from the wing mirror.

LizB62A · 22/12/2019 12:57

And I've just noticed that Mumsnet are running a competition to win a dashcam (front view only, but that's a start) for anyone who doesn't want to find themselves in the OP's position of having to prove that this accident was nothing to do with her:

www.mumsnet.com/competitions/win-a-dash-cam-with-nextbase

Surfskatefamily · 22/12/2019 13:02

The only thing that makes sense is that you pulled out on her and hit the car. You don't always feel much but if you heard it as you were turning that makes sense.

Accidents happen, probably in your blind spot. I'd assume she will claim on insurance. Damage is to the side of her car so I'd assume you will need to pay excess.

Surfskatefamily · 22/12/2019 13:03

Oh ok..hmm the bollards could be possible. But it would be weird for someone to hit bollards and try to pin it on another random motorist?
Definitly go take a look though

DeRigueurMortis · 22/12/2019 13:19

Surf the OP hitting the car is the only thing that doesn't make sense based on the photo of the damaged car and lack of damage to her car.

If the OP was involved it can only have been that she caused the other driver to take evasive action that forced her to crash into something else.

HildaRumpole · 22/12/2019 15:04

Teateaandmoretea

Nope, you are categorically wrong about that. You may have an anecdote where someone got away with it (or there are more relevant facts that we don’t know) but you can absolutely be held legally responsible for an accident in which there is no contact with your car. I know this for two reasons: (1) I’ve got my own anecdote where I was held liable for causing an impact when my car wasn’t actually hit; and (2) I’m a barrister who deals with road traffic accidents at court on a regular basis. If your driving falls below the standard of a reasonably competent driver (pulling out when there wasn’t enough room), and someone swerved as a result, and either hit a stationary object or another vehicle, then you’re going to be found to be partially liable. The other driver may have contributed to the collision happening by their own breach of the standard of a reasonably competent driver (like it sounds in this case) in which case you’ll get a split in liability. You might get very lucky and the driving of the other driver was so poor that whilst your driving was in breach, it didn’t actually cause the accident (would have happened anyway).

The other factor to consider (and it may be what happened in your anecdote) is that if it gets to court you have prove the accident happened in the way you said it did. A judge may not have accepted the evidence as to how the tractor was driving.

optimisticpessimist01 · 22/12/2019 15:29

If she crashed into the bollard because you pulled out on her then you are at partial fault OP, whether you thought it was clear or not is irrelevant, this car ended up crashing as soon as you pulled out. I don't think she hit you, I think she swerved to avoid hitting you.

Teateaandmoretea · 22/12/2019 16:03

The other factor to consider (and it may be what happened in your anecdote) is that if it gets to court you have prove the accident happened in the way you said it did. A judge may not have accepted the evidence as to how the tractor was driving.

Obviously I'm not a barrister so if it can happen I accept that/ your knowledge.

But surely ^^this is the point it has to be proven that it was the fault of the person who wasn't hit. I imagine in the vast majority of cases (including this one where no one seems to know what happened) this would be impossible to prove that the other party was involved or to blame as it happened quickly/ there are no reliable witnesses/ it is one persons word against the other. So the evidence generally of involvement is still being hit. Plus it's pretty rare surely for this to go to court? A dented front wing or a few scratches on a car that ended up in the ditch doesn't justify the £££££ required particularly if the case is not successful.

Teateaandmoretea · 22/12/2019 16:04

But it would be weird for someone to hit bollards and try to pin it on another random motorist?

No not weird at all, she would rather the accident wasn't her fault.

aspoonfulofyourownmedicine · 22/12/2019 16:08

I don't think you've hit her either - especially due to the lack of damage to your car. I hit a stationary car by reversing into it, it was dark, in an unlit carpark and his car was just in my blindspot as I attempted to park my car. It cracked his bumper from the towbar, but the back of my car was significantly dented. My car came off worse. The collision was around 5mph. If she had been travelling at 30mph and you at 10/15mph, I suspect there would be lots more damage to both vehicles.

I'm guessing she's been paying no attention to the road and clipped something else.

BlaueLagune · 22/12/2019 16:17

If your driving falls below the standard of a reasonably competent driver (pulling out when there wasn’t enough room), and someone swerved as a result, and either hit a stationary object or another vehicle, then you’re going to be found to be partially liable

In some cases I can imagine this. For example, if you pulled out to overtake a bike and there was someone coming the other way who had to drive into a ditch to avoid you.

But it doesn't sound like someone pulling out of a road with plenty of time to do so, is in any way liable for someone who wasn't paying attention hitting a bollard behind them.

Teateaandmoretea · 22/12/2019 16:17

I once hit someone up the rear years ago and there was no damage at all to his car. But I don't think that's consistent with the marks on hers. Interestingly it looks the same as when DH thank the lord it was him not me scraped our old car on a bollard in a car park.

BlaueLagune · 22/12/2019 16:18

But it would be weird for someone to hit bollards and try to pin it on another random motorist

Not really - some women live with abusive men (yes I know it can be the other way round) and would be terrified of going home and admitting they've pranged the car.

HildaRumpole · 22/12/2019 17:34

You’d be amazed what goes to court Tea - you get small claims for only hundreds of pounds there every day of the week - and the damage in this one is probably over a thousand.

And the standard of proof is only the balance of probabilities ie more likely than not, so the Judge would make a decision on what the two drivers had to say (and the damage, road layout etc) so you certainly could get had for this in court, although there’s always an unknown element!

HildaRumpole · 22/12/2019 17:37

Blauelagune we’ve only got the OP ‘s word for it she pulled out with enough room. And what she says, she didn’t see the other driver at all before the accident happened, and yet the other driver must have been there to be seen because the accident did happen - tends to suggest she missed the other car and pulled out when it wasn’t safe

Teateaandmoretea · 22/12/2019 18:03

I don't think it's possible to work out what happened other than she didn't hit the OP's car which was the original question that she posed - the rest is up to the other woman to explain exactly why the OP is involved/ at fault.

YappityYapYap · 22/12/2019 18:52

She hit the bollards OP, pretty obvious. She wasn't paying attention and hit them then looked up and saw your car ahead. The only way you could have done this is by joining the road at the time she passed the junction and went right into the side of her. That didn't happen

Original poster
Chefwifelife · 30/12/2019 17:33

Just a little update that I’ve had no contact from the other party or either insurance company.

OP posts:
Tistheseason17 · 30/12/2019 17:51

OP, you are very lovely and you did not hit her!

You'd know if you'd taken her wing mirror off and you would have had a scrape even if you did not feel it.

From her comment that she looked up and got hit I suspect she was on her phone, looked up and had veered into the other carriageway or hit the bollard.

You stopped and gave her an opportunity to blame someone and I suspect she has now thought better of this as you have no damage to your car. I may not have been so luck as I have scrapes on my car already and she would have said I'd hit her.

Just tell your Ins co the truth - you do not believe you hit her car as there was no bump, no impact and no damage. You simply heard a bang and stopped due to your job.

Best of luck - I don't think you'll hear any more.

Original poster
Chefwifelife · 30/12/2019 17:54

Ah thank you @Tistheseason17. I’m more annoyed that I even doubted myself!

OP posts:
Thetruthwillout80 · 30/12/2019 18:32

She was busy changing radio channel/volume on stereo. The reason she has no idea what happened was because she was not paying attention.

The fact you stopped to check she was okay, which was gracious of you, completed her narrative that you were at fault.n