To wonder why people dislike Civil Servants?

[tequilasunrises]

Disclaimer: I am one.

I’ve only worked in one Government department but it’s mostly filled with people who work incredibly hard and are passionate about what they do. In spite of the fact that they aren’t paid as well as they could be in other industries, have shoddy infrastructure and IT, are understaffed and overworked etc.

Yet many people seem to think we are on some sort of gravy train and just sit around smoking cigars and ripping up taxpayers fivers.

I just wonder why really.

Ha ha! It is a bit like the Thick of It sometimes. There are definitely some bits of Terri I recognise.

Ok Iamthewombat I’m really not going to argue. I asked because a Grade 5 is very different to a DG. But I understand that you would not want to share that detail. I wouldn’t either.

When I was talking about the best people I was talking about DG and Perm Sec, and some exceptional directors. The type of people I was talking about moving across to banks etc (I won’t say headhunted, it obviously annoyed you) are PPS and PS to Chancellor etc. I accept my experience isn’t typical. It’s just really annoying when private sector people dismiss all civil servants and your attitude really sounds as though you have a bit of a chip from your time there. A lot of private sector people do that - I’ve worked with some great consultants but again some of them are just piss poor.

It sounds like you had a very frustrating experience and I can imagine that - as I said before there defo needs a shake up in lots of areas.

When I was talking about the best people I was talking about DG and Perm Sec

Then it is rather disingenuous to suggest that it is easy and common to move across from the public sector to the private sector, and that recruiters actively seek out civil servants for private sector roles, when in fact you are talking about the handful of people occupying director general and perm sec roles. We know why those people are occasionally offered jobs by banks and professional services businesses: they know the strategies of the department they left.

For 99.99% of civil servants, that won’t be the case.

It amuses me that people subscribing to the ‘I could earn twice as much in the private sector’ myth never compare like with like. I’m a chartered accountant and was a senior civil servant before I escaped. I didn’t look at, say, the CFO of Shell and think, if only I was in the private sector now I’d DEFINITELY have his job and be earning millions. But some people in the civil service think like that. They never look at somebody doing a comparable job for, usually, less money. No, they look at roles that are much more senior and better remunerated and tell themselves that they’d be in one of those.

By the way, this really made me laugh:

I asked because a Grade 5 is very different to a DG.

A mere SCS daring to form a view on the civil service! Directors general only, please.

@Iamthewombat We are all generalising here which as we know we can't really do because the CS is vast, but in the departments I've worked in, and my husband, they are very specialised and yes we would earn more in the private sector. It's not big headedness or lack of intelligence in releasing like for like as you are suggesting, but fact. Not for everybody, but for us. But we have our reasons for staying in the public sector, as do many. And it's why the CS have professional streams and retention programmes as they have witnessed people flounce to the private sector after gaining training and experience in the public sector. I'm speaking generally for the technical roles I've experienced in roughly grades H-G7.

This is why they are trying to create a professional stream for my "trade" as they have a problem with retention, and pay is the biggest issue.

Learn to distinguish between ‘some’ and ‘all’.

Here’s what I wrote:

But some people in the civil service think like that.

(‘That’ being comparing their CS role to a more senior and better-remunerated private sector role that would be out of their reach).

@Iamthewombat learn some people skills, you're being a dick.

Oh dear, I’ve touched a few nerves there, haven’t I? As ever, the ad hominem arguments start as soon as people like you lose an argument.

I work in the NHS having come from private sector.

What bingoitsadingo and Kazzyhoward says sums it up.

Despite working with an amazing team, they are very inefficient. By industry standards, we have a large admin team but the systems are so out of date they waste time doing things that aren't really necessary. I started work in the late eighties and I thought I'd stepped back in time when I started my current job.

Also, people leave on the dot (not necessarily a bad thing).

I also think that the job banding results in some people doing jobs just because they have done the time rather than being really good. Overall, staff in the NHS are more lethargic and less receptive to change. Having no experience outside the NHS (which is the majority of the clinicians) is not necessarily a good thing.

DH is military and planning to work in the City. Many banks/the Big 4 do schemes for service leavers.

home.barclays/careers/our-programmes/after/

careers.jpmorgan.com/us/en/students/programs/military-uk-direct-hire

www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/careers/articles/military-recruitment.html

I had no idea people hated civil servants! I understood that in the past there were good benefits (pension, flextime). But it’s shockingly badly paid.

On returning to work from mat leave I was contacted by a local council for an IT role. I would have to start at the bottom of the scale earning 3/5ths of my currrent salary! I couldn’t believe how out of line with market rate they were.

I think the meaning of "civil servant" has changed over time. My brother worked in the post office and was a civil servant simply because it was a nationalised industry way back then. He has a civil service pension and was a member of the civil service union.

Same with local councils, NHS, and lots of other "governmental" organisations. With a couple of decades of privatisation, subcontracting, etc., perhaps some people define civil servants as Parliament and security service staff, i.e. those VERY close to government bodies.

Would people working in a privatised border force security role be regarded as civil servants for example? Or people working in the passport or driving licence office? Or probate officers?

Also, people leave on the dot (not necessarily a bad thing).

Nothing wrong with discouraging presenteeism and long hours culture.

I’ve just retired from CS/public sector after nearly 40 years. Much of what has been said here was true when I joined but it really isn’t any more.

NHS employees aren’t civil servants.

It’s also a lot cheaper to employ civil servants than their military counterparts in the MoD.