To think lots of men must believe in Santa? It’s the only explanation

[NurseryTrouble123]

DH and I have a pretty equal relationship in most respects - parenting, cooking, etc. I wish he’d clean more, but no one is perfect.

But when it comes to Christmas he does nothing. This morning he bought his first present and Christmas card while at the supermarket (for his niece - that gift, something for me and something for his mum are the only things he’ll buy). I used to love Christmas but now I just dread it. I’m lucky the kids aren’t aware that it’s Christmas so have no expectations - this is probably the last year I can get away with it being like this.

He seems to think Christmas just happens - he hasn’t spent a second thinking about what to get the kids, what food we need, ordering the food, arranging plans with family, decorating, properly cleaning the house, etc. When I speak to my friends, even those with very equal partners are doing the vast majority of the extra Christmas-related work.

I’m now wondering if he thinks that presents just magically arrive fully wrapped, food just arrives, decorations just exist in the loft ready to be put up... does he still think santa is real? It’s the only possible explanation for so many men being so completely shit at this time of year.

I’m sure some will tell us lovely stories of their partners doing the bulk of Christmas, cooking Christmas dinner; wrapping and buying all the gifts etc. I’m sure men like that exist but AIBU to think this is not the case for the vast majority of couples? Considering a strike for next year TBH. I just don’t understand how men who don’t usually practice this level of strategic incompetence, and who are usually not oblivious to what needs doing, are suddenly completely blind to these things because it’s christmas-related.

(And yes, I have spoken to him about it but he says deeply annoying things like “I don’t know what to buy”, as if I haven’t had to spend ages figuring out what to get, or “you should just ask for help” as if he doesn’t know that people need gifts, Christmas means a Christmas dinner, or that the tree needs to go up. It’s not “helping” me because it shouldn’t just be my job!)

[cosima1]

In fact, I sometimes wonder what would actually happen if I was dead.

[NurseryTrouble123]

I see quite a lot of people haven’t actually read what I’ve posted.

This is the whole point. The rest of the time he’s responsible, reliable, not a child by any stretch, but at Christmas it’s completely different, and having spoken to friends about this recently, many experience the same - men who year round are pretty equal but who do FA at Christmas.

And it’s not me wanting a lavish Christmas while he’s a Scrooge - he loves Christmas and all the related stuff.

I also said quite clearly that it’s not all men (do I really have to point this out?). I said “lots of men”, not all men, but it seems to be a recurring theme amongst the couples I know.

His niece didn’t get a birthday present this year because I was very busy with other stuff and he didn’t bother. It’s probably why that’s the only present he’s bought as it’s not on - she’s six, she knows when we forget her!

If he's not going to do it off his own bat then you need to sit down and make a list of what needs doing.

Absolutely no chance. He knows what’s invoiced in Christmas, I shouldn’t need to make him a fucking list. The rest of the year he manages to use his own initiative to open his eyes and see what needs doing and then do it. I just don’t understand why it’s so different at Christmas

[sirfredfredgeorge]

The PP at no point suggested it was an unpleasant thing to have done

Yes she did "creating a thank you task" is unpleasant, of course it's really likely that no thank-you task was actually being created and the PP was just generating her own idea of what work is required.

Like most of this thread - there's things that need doing, and there's things which people like to do, so many of the complaints are people who would only do the things that need doing getting criticism for not doing thinking of doing the things that the others would like doing.

You're not being lazy and unthinking if you leave your partner to write a christmas card to that nice couple you met in Santorini and 1985, unless you're actually appalled that they don't get one.

[Nearlyalmost50]

So- even though all the statistics tell us that men typically do less housework, less childcare, and less home organization even when controlling for amount of time worked (so men who work full time are compared with women who work full time), women are still in the wrong for pointing this out because:
a) not all men are like this and we have failed to sufficiently appreciate the few
b) women are excessive and stupid in their pursuit of the best Christmas for their families so it's all their own fault they aren't happy with some garage flowers as a present and some ready meals. Who needs presents anyway?

See, it's never the men's fault!

[wanderings]

Maybe men have the right idea and we're the real idiots ?
Echoing the idea that perhaps there is truth in this. Christmas is only a huge expensive workload if we allow it to be. Perhaps the men are being "lazy" about Christmas to make a point, that it need not be the extravagance that it is always turned into. Perhaps we need a general Scrooge-like movement to tone it down a bit, as echoed on a few threads. I always thought the ending of Blackadder's Christmas Carol was far better than the Dickensian ending.

As always, the key to this is communication. If Christmas and all the trimmings is important to you, then say so. If you're feeling resentful about doing more than half the work for it, then say so. In my view, the "silent seethers" belong on the naughty list.

Were most of the well-known anti-Christmas people male? Scrooge, the Grinch, Oliver Cromwell... although one notable exception is the White Witch. Did she have a point? Would Greta Thunberg be proud if Christmas was toned down, with all the waste and travelling that goes with it?

[DappledThings]

Yes she did "creating a thank you task" is unpleasant, of course it's really likely that no thank-you task was actually being created

That's not unpleasant, just a minor annoyance. And of course receiving a gift creates a thank you task. Unless you don't believe in thanking people.

[roisinagusniamh]

I think these ''My husband is usless...'' threads say more about the OPs than they realise.
''More fool you then'' and ''stop doing everything'' are suggestions., but to delve deeper and analyse why anyone woulds be so lazy and uninvolved shows deep flaws in the relationship.
These men DO NOT respect you and you need to sort out your relationship or split.
You are setting a very bad example to your chilodren too.

[FruitcakeOfHate]

Then you need to leave him to it. You buy for your family. And fuck the rest. Literally. It doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I wouldn't even bother with the meal, either. Nothing. Nowt. He loves fucking Christmas so much he can sort it out himself.

[DontDribbleOnTheCarpet]

In the early years of my marriage I felt exactly like this. Then I thought about what I was overdoing and stopped. Everything had been done from scratch, everything was thought out to the tiniest detail and everything was perfect except I was exhausted and nobody else cared.

MrCarpet hates writing cards and so do I, so that stopped except for one to his elderly uncle. A side benefit of this is that my house is no longer full of Christmas cards shedding glitter and creating clutter. Hideous rude and nasty distant cousin was no longer invited which saved massive stress, menu was changed to what we actually wanted to eat rather than what we thought we should be eating. I shop for the kids presents because he's afraid of the internet, but he buys gifts for me and his great-nephews.

There are a few things that only I do and some that only he does. We sat down and looked at what we thought was necessary and what was either optional or traditional. We kept the necessary bits and sorted the rest into things we liked and things we don't. The stuff we didn't like was chucked and we divided the rest between us. If only one of us liked a thing, it was kept but that person was responsible for it. Christmas is very low stress now, because putting on a good show doesn't matter.

[DappledThings]

He knows what’s involved in Christmas, I shouldn’t need to make him a fucking list

He knows what you think Christmas involves. Does he agree though? Someone previously had a hoovering analogy that makes sense and a lot of other people have suggested you may be doing way more than is really required.

Next time we host i will help with the food planning and buying if asked to but I'm not going to volunteer to because I haven't a clue what DH would like to cook or what he thinks our guests would like.

[myfuckingfreezer]

I just don’t understand how men who don’t usually practice this level of strategic incompetence

I just don't understand how women put up with this shit. It's not hard - divvy up the jobs, tell him to pull his finger out and wait. Either he listens and acts like an adult or he doesn't and feels the shame.

[Busybusybust]

I've always thought that your average wonam works her arse off so that everyone else has a good time

[Zaphodsotherhead]

OP, I started a thread a few days ago about why some men are so miserable about Christmas when they do nothing but sit and eat and watch TV on their enforced days off from the day job and got loads of posts that led me to believe that it's only me and maybe two other women who have men like this.

All other men are skipping happily around town centres, shopping like mad with big cheesy smiles on, counting down the days to Chrismtas while decorating the house and buying all the Christmas food.

You are not unreasonable. All the men of my acquaintance profess to hate every second of Christmas and yet expect a three course dinner and presents to materialise.

[HulksPurplePanties]

DH does everything for Christmas around our house. He buys the presents (lovely Amazon), he wraps them, he puts the lights up outside.

The only thing DC's and I do is help choose and decorate the tree.

I suppose we both do Elf on the Shelf.

Never sent a Christmas card in my life and never intend to.
… I suppose I did reserve our place for Christmas lunch, cause who wants to cook?

[roisinagusniamh]

Well then you need to rethink your friendship group Zap, you're obviously surrounded by women who married Cavemen!

[museumum]

He knows what’s involved in Christmas, I shouldn’t need to make him a fucking list

But if you're going to SHARE the work then there does need to be a list somewhere of who is doing what - or else neice will have two presents and granny none!

We have a master list of who is getting a present and then we initial half of the list each for buying and tick when bought.
DH does the supermarket food shop and wine but I do the nice wee bits from the local high street and I organise veg box and milk deliveries. If we both tried to do everything at the same time it would be a disasterous mess. Sharing the workload doesn't just happen without liaison and organisation (lists).

[DaisyArtichoke7]

I don't understand why one person has to take on the whole of Christmas. Surely you can just talk to the family and decide who does what?

DP host and they buy and pay for the turkey and veg.
DB will buy other food and drink and SIL will buy special treats.
I have made the cake and buy pudding and crackers.
DH will pick up extra shopping order for DP.

All the men manage to buy and wrap presents on their own.

DB & DM will cook.
The rest of us clear up (they make a lot of mess)
The kids just enjoy themselves.

All costs and responsibilities shared between the whole family.

[Zaphodsotherhead]

But it's not just my friends, roisin! I work in a shop, and all the male customers are ALREADY moaning about the expense, that they're expected to buy things for their wives, that the kids will be noisy and messy and home for a fortnight...

I think I know two men who are looking forward to Christmas. The rest seem to regard it as a kind of house-arrest with better food (none of which they buy or cook).

[Phineyj]

OP - I think it is worth some reflection (probably after Christmas) about why your otherwise decent DH does this at this time of year. I noticed my DH does this when we are around his DPs. I think he unconsciously reverts to how he and his DB behaved at home - left everything to his DM (although actually my DFIL does have clearly defined jobs that he doesn't have to be reminded to do - DH conveniently ignores that part!) Therefore, having his DP to stay for Xmas creates a perfect storm on our part. Things have got better since we had a steaming row about it. He now can't pretend I don't notice (I don't have massive expectations by the way - just enough food and drink for the people we're hosting, beds for guests, moderately clean house and presents bought for people we'd reasonably expect to get them for us).

I think women can step back and behave like a lot of men do (I don't write cards for DH any more and if he loses touch with people as a result, whatever), but it is harder for us to go against the gender socialisation - a lot of us can easily put ourselves in the shoes of the elderly relative who would have quite liked a Christmas card or the person who gets a thoughtless, or no, present. Women also tend to cop more of the blame for crap organisation.

Have a proper conversation with DH after Christmas. Get him to acknowledge he's doing this. Agree, mutually, how it will be in 2020. Put it in writing in an email or something.

[CosmoK]

OP, I started a thread a few days ago about why some men are so miserable about Christmas when they do nothing but sit and eat and watch TV on their enforced days off from the day job and got loads of posts that led me to believe that it's only me and maybe two other women who have men like this

'enforced days off' Who are these men who don't want to take time of work to spend time with their family?

All other men are skipping happily around town centres, shopping like mad with big cheesy smiles on, counting down the days to Chrismtas while decorating the house and buying all the Christmas food.

Yes - you've just described my DH

You are not unreasonable. All the men of my acquaintance profess to hate every second of Christmas and yet expect a three course dinner and presents to materialise.

You need to find better acquaintances. I don't know any men like this - thankfully.

[Shinyletsbebadguys]

My exdh was useless with Christmas and he had no excuse at all. My DP however I must admit probably appears useless at this time of year but the gods honest truth is he genuinely has no real concept of Christmas. The rest of the year he is fantastic and very much hands on and an equal partner. However he grew up extremely poor and homeless so to be really honest he never really experienced a true Christmas.

That coupled with some awful experiences at this time of year he spent a long time completely ignoring christmas. So now to be honest he tries but just doesn't understand a lot of it. So frankly he doesn't care if the outside lights are up or there is a christmas tablecloth is on. I do so I get on with it.

Saying that he does go out and buy DC and I presents and tries with his mum and brothers but to be honest they aren't much better at christmas.he asks for help but it's the only thing he struggles with so I'm happy to.

If you dh doesn't have a good reason then yes he is an ass but I do get that sometimes if you haven't grown up with some christmas stuff you genuinely might not understand how ot matters.

What works for us (I absolutely get this is personal to you) is if there is something I know will be meaningful for the DC (attending their decoration thing at school ...not christmas plays because DP gets that because he listens to them practice so he knows how important it is to them) I outright say "no this is important you need to do it".

He has learnt now to trust me that I wont get him doing frippery that i have decided i want but i will tell him if it's a truly important part of Christmas.

I did have to realise that the stuff i decided was important for Christmas was sometimes about me and he didn't agree , so fine if i want xyz then I need to do it.

[BarbourellaTheCoatzilla]

The rest of the time he’s responsible, reliable, not a child by any stretch

I doubt this is true, because

His niece didn’t get a birthday present this year because I was very busy with other stuff and he didn’t bother.

contradicts everything. I think you're probably been a bit disingenuous about his 'help' throughout the year. Either make a point to share the load or stop moaning and being a martyr. You married the man child, deal with it.

[Phineyj]

And as a plan B, go somewhere catered for Christmas next year. A change can reset unhelpful patterns.

[failingmammalian]

ive thought a lot about this and i keep coming back to this isnt the excess present giving something women impose on each other? the men in my family couldnt give a toss if they got presents or not. so if we left it to them there would be no presents for grown ups at all and that would suit me just fine. i have a feeling that a man-led xmas would be food, booze and not v much stress. (( of course theres the small matter of kids presents i think they would get involved with kid presents, but tbh i quite enjoy doing that myself, the thing that drives me nuts is buying shit for prescriptive grown ups who dont need anything!)

[CanIHaveADrink]

Christmas is only a huge expensive workload if we allow it to be. Perhaps the men are being "lazy" about Christmas to make a point, that it need not be the extravagance that it is always turned into

Surely it depends what you are talking about here. The OP is talking about buying PRESENTS FOR HIS OWN DCS, one thing he doesnt do at all.
She is talking about being INVOLVED in preparing the meal/what they have to eat/buying stuff for the meal. Nowhere did she is say she doing an extravagent 5 courses meal with all the trimmings.

Its funnu how MN has now tuend into the 'its your fault women because you are asking too much/wants extraordinary things' for stuff that are pretty normal.
Christmas is only a special time if someone is putting the effort to make it special. A minimum of effort to find the presents that the children will love (or his niece!) isnt asking for too much! Nor is outting the christmas tree up with some decs.