To think that it will be very difficult, if not impossible for a Labour majority again

[Rosehip10]

Even in this election the best result most labour supporters could hope for was a hung Parliament. I think it is going to be virtually impossible for labour to form a majority government again.

If you look at Labour's problems - Scotland is gone, I don't think there will ever be a time again when the vast majority of seats (or even a few) in Scotland are Labour.

Looking at the rest of the country, labour is essentially trying to appeal to two very different groups. The wants, needs and ideologies of seats like Putney, Canterbury or Cambridge (generally more middle class, wealthier, younger, higher qualifications held, more international outlook (i.e strong remain)) Vs places like Redcar, Wrexham and Workington - traditional "working class" ex-industrial seats, major economic challenges with a older, socially conservative, strong leave electorate.

I don't think any potential Labour leader can appeal to both those groups because it is probably impossible to. If you ramp up your appeal to the socially conservative group then you will bleed the middle class metropolitan and student centric seats. If this happened then a new party could rise or a party like the greens could become a major force.

Anyone got any views on this? If you are a labour voter or member what leader do you think may be able to overcome these difficulties? Is it even possible? Will the Labour party split?

Basically you need a blair, a labour guy who really is a conservative in many ways.

England deserves to have permanent Tory government.

A bit like a dictator?

Why so many ands - you get this and this and this and this. Just calm down and focus on what people will vote for. It’s crazy and was an open goal in many respects.

Have you seen the electorate maps by age? Conservative biggest support was 65+. Don't be fooled by MN either. You do realise Brexit isn't an ongoing thing forever?

It is exceptionally naive to think a 10 year period politically can end a party.

@Alanis126 harsh, but I tend to agree with you on score of independent Scotland and Endland deserving a permanent Tory government.

Have you seen the electorate maps by age?

Fake news - impossible to know that detail. It's all based on assumptions and guesswork.

Is that the map that was debunked on another thread? If it's the same one, it's based on a poll taken last year, on the question of who you would vote for if there was an election next week. It doesn't show how people actually voted in the actual election this week.

most youngster move away as soon as they get the chance

Because the good jobs are all in the cities and S/E. The young go to Uni and don't go back home because there are no jobs for them. We're experiencing it with our son - nearly all the industry placements for his Uni course are in and around London. Do you expect people to get a degree and then go back home to work in a shop or care home?

I think the Indy party may come back from the dead. We need a new centrist party with left and right policies in the correct places. Though Luciana Berger is now Lib Dem 🤷‍♀️ so fuck knows. She didn't do much for Wavertree anyway.

Bollocks @Aryaneedle that is nothing but exit poll rubbish and totally irrelevant.

We have people in their 20s and 30s voting Tory and Brexit Party in Liverpool, FFS. Scouse Tories 🙈 it's an oxymoron. Liverpool is a liberal/leftwing haven! Labour had huge majorities here but the anti-labour/anti corbyn sentiment is still creeping through bit by bit. Most voted Red because they feel they have to, but if there was a credible alternative to Labour they would have been voted in here.

It won't be Tory v Labour in 15yrs. Labour will be gone, if they're not careful.

I was 14 when Tony Blair got in.

I’ll never forgive him for ruining the country and that illegal war. He also introduced tuition fees.

I would never vote labour even before Corbyn

Jim you do recall that the Tories cheered him on both with regard to tuition fees and with regard to the Iraq war? So I hope you voted Lib Dem or other.

The Tories have always been a party who first and foremost want to govern. They will ditch ideology and leaders to do that. That’s why they win elections.

The Labour Party hasn’t ever reconciled the debate between whether they want to be a party of government or a party of ideology and causes.

Those (male) working class voters in the north wanted what they always wanted, good secure jobs and affordable homes. They identified with Brexit because it is essentially a nationalist movement. It’s no different to the Scots opting for the SNP.

Labours focus on causes along with tax and spend Policies just didn’t resonate with people who wanted opportunity not handouts. That’s an observation not my own political view.

Labour need to want to be in government not to be pure and superior in opposition.

A clever leader would have voted for Mays deal and split the conservatives. But even then Corby would miss the open goal.

I think they can win again with a Blair New Labour approach. The trouble is that is basically Tory dressed as Labour.

Can they win as Labour? Actually to the left? I fear not, this election has shown that.

I think once Brexit has been "done" those leaver seats in the North that have gone to the Conservatives will return to Labour. They are areas that have voted Labour "forever". Also Brexit party was in play in many of those seats, taking votes from Labour and thereby wiping out majorities. Once Brexit is over there will be no Brexit party and other issues will come to the fore again and I would imagine the vast majority of these voters were revert to Labour.

In the days of Michael Foot no one could imagine Labour getting back into power but I remember the Tony Blair landslide victory and the euphoria. People do get sick of a particular regime after a while and look for something different.
If Labour find a really enigmatic leader and return to the centre ground I think they can win again in 10 years time. 5 years time is unlikely unless Brexit does cause absolute chaos.

I would imagine the vast majority of these voters were revert to Labour.

But with all the Scottish Labour seats having gone SNP, will Labour ever again be able to win an overall majority, even if they do win back all or most of the northern seats?

The price for a Labour-SNP deal in a hung parliament would be Indyref2, and if the Scots voted to go, that would be the end of that....

I live in one of the former staunch Labour seats that has fallen to the Tories. To be frank, the majority of people around here are small minded, ignorant, massively racist, hate everything and anything different or new and are very resistant to change.

and these are the people who have supported Labour for decades?? Says a lot about Labour then.........

@Rosehip10

Brexit was a massive factor in this election in former labour seats. Many interviews people did just say "why hasn't it happened yet"?

I agree it was massive, but so were other things, ie the leader, anti semitism, incoherent and incontinent splurge if policies (quote Steven Kinnock on Question Time as well as hoards of other MPS and ex MPs)

There is just no point Labour and their activists sticking their head in the sand and just blaming Brexit. If they do then enjoy being in opposition as that's where they will remain for an awful long time and it is not healthy with our constitution to have an ineffective opposition as they have been and will continue to be

@Rosehip10

Regardless of the actual truth the vulgar "corbyn is a commie" stuff pumped out seemed to have an impact in northern seats.

Err because it is true isn't it? John McDonnel said he is a Marxist.

Oh ...and I live in the north. What has been another factor is having senior Labour bods like Yvette Cooper and many others who were placed in constituencies as they had sky high majorities that were weighed not counted but hardly ever seen as they were London based.

So if Labour start ever trying to reconnect with the working class that voted Conservative, then looking at who are potential candidates may be a good start, ie they have some local connections not a husband and wife partnership granted neighbouring constituencies.

Think we should see what kind of shit storm Boris creates first.
You can be the new messiah for only so long.

Labour also need to ditch woman only shortlists for election candidates and also need to stop parachuting in Londoners to Northern seats. They need to chose the best, most electable, local candidate for each constituency regardless of gender.

I think we need to see how the next 5 years of Tory rule go before you can make such predictions! If things become as dire as is feared in terms of even more cuts to public services etc, and Labour have a decent leader, then the Labour Party could well rise from the ashes.

I genuinely think if it were possible the UK should split politically. This will probably happen anyway when Scotland goes. I am almost envisaging a Confederate Kingdom, which retains the monarchy, is out of the EU, has no or only basic public services,& a liberal progressive Republic part of the EU, with social policies along Scandinavian lines and a proper welfare state.

@user1497207191

Labour also need to ditch woman only shortlists for election candidates and also need to stop parachuting in Londoners to Northern seats. They need to chose the best, most electable, local candidate for each constituency regardless of gender.

You are so correct. Labour treat the north as a god given right to have huge majorities in some places where they weigh votes as opposed to count them. As such they parachuted in London based flyers who think buying a house in the constituency and making the occasional visit suffices....etc all Yvette Cooper and husband Ed Balls. Balls suffered his fate previously. Cooper hung in by 1200 votes but the feeling against her in Castleford is significant now

Having a man who is local is far preferable to someone who is parachuted in.