To think that it will be very difficult, if not impossible for a Labour majority again

[Rosehip10]

Even in this election the best result most labour supporters could hope for was a hung Parliament. I think it is going to be virtually impossible for labour to form a majority government again.

If you look at Labour's problems - Scotland is gone, I don't think there will ever be a time again when the vast majority of seats (or even a few) in Scotland are Labour.

Looking at the rest of the country, labour is essentially trying to appeal to two very different groups. The wants, needs and ideologies of seats like Putney, Canterbury or Cambridge (generally more middle class, wealthier, younger, higher qualifications held, more international outlook (i.e strong remain)) Vs places like Redcar, Wrexham and Workington - traditional "working class" ex-industrial seats, major economic challenges with a older, socially conservative, strong leave electorate.

I don't think any potential Labour leader can appeal to both those groups because it is probably impossible to. If you ramp up your appeal to the socially conservative group then you will bleed the middle class metropolitan and student centric seats. If this happened then a new party could rise or a party like the greens could become a major force.

Anyone got any views on this? If you are a labour voter or member what leader do you think may be able to overcome these difficulties? Is it even possible? Will the Labour party split?

@MarySidney Ok fine, but the realities of the presence of the universities have defined the result for Labour in places like Canterbury and Exeter and I don't see the student vote moving to conservative any time soon - same as Oxford which is split between Labour and Lid dems.

This was how the Tories felt in 1997.

It took them a long time but they came back. Labour will come back.

user1497207191 Exactly and I don't see Scotland going Labour again ever - the SNP have essentially take that share of the vote.

To win, labour need to win over floating voters as Blair did. They will not do that by going further left, they need to be more centrist.

But that’s not ideologically pure enough for Bromentum. They’d rather this result and grumble about voters being wrong than compromise and get any of the things they want to deliver.

I agree that the Scottish swing to the SNP is a huge issue for Labour, but it’s also heartening, in a way. Scotland hasn’t gone to the right but to the left. Take independence out of the equation and perhaps the Labour option becomes more palatable.

Either way, it is what it is: if English voters have moved to the right we will have to change their minds.

But then again, when people talk about the decline in the Labour vote since Blair and they blame Corbyn, and Corbyn’s left wing policies, they don’t tend to factor in either Brexit or Scotland. This was a perfect storm for Labour. If the only way they could have won a majority was to ape the Tories, I’d rather not have one.

Actually I think with a really good leader Labour could win support in Scotland again.

If Scotland go independent then I am sure Labour would become an force again.

And if the issue of independence is settled for good in favour of UK then again people may feel a Labour MP could represent them better in the UK parliament.

I do think it's a long way off - but never say never

IMO they can and very likely will - as long as they ditch Momentum and their quasi-Marxist ilk asap and move back to the centre left with a credible, electable leader.

It would also help to realise that the views of well-off, metropolitan elites or 'champagne socialists' and rich luvvies such as Hugh Grant, do not accord with those of vast swathes of the population.

As for Scotland, I almost wish Boris would let them have IndyRef2 and be done with it. From all I hear, which is quite a lot, many Scots do not wish for independence (and a lot don't like NS anyway) because they are all too aware that it would come at a considerable financial cost. Not to mention that re-joining the EU would hardly be a walk in the park, either.

I imagine that one reason the SNP did so well this time, was that although so many Scots could never bring themselves to vote Tory, they didn't like the look of Corbyn's Labour either. In particular Corbyn's evident antipathy for the armed forces would not play well in an area where there's a long and proud tradition of serving in them.

No Labour can never win as they are because the electorate will not vote for progressive or redistributive policies. Either they will get another centrist leader who is essentially a pre 2016 style Tory just indee the Labour brand, who even then will only win the odd election, especially if Scotland leaves the UK. England wants right wing government, it wants a denuded welfare state, it wants anti-immigrant feeling, it wants no NHS, it wants poor and disabled people to be left behind, discarded and preferably kill themselves. This is what England wants and this is what it will get.

And by the time Johnson has finished wrecking communities like Workington and Blyth, and he’s out working class people firmly where he thinks they should be, they’ll be wishing they had remembered who they are and where they’re from. I hope I’m wrong, for the sake of the deprived communities in this country.

What EVER AGAIN? I mean, next time it will have been 14 straight years of the Torys. With Brexit over new allegiances will abound

@Random18 I think whatever happens in Scotland Labour will never be back their in force again. Ok, a Labour party may do ok in an independent Scottish Parliament but that would have no relevance to the rest of the UK. If scotland chooses to remain in UK it will be by small margins I would think, so the current SNP cycle would repeat and hence no place for Labour.

Alanis no they don't they really don't.

They want a future.

Thus rhetoric is not going to help Labour grow strong again.

Its bullied too many out of the party and it needs to stop or the Labour party will never ever get my vote again.

I say that as someone who voted labour on Thursday

@Littletabbyocelot

I think Labour will move to the centre and will wipe the Tories out at the next election

I think this illustrates just why labour don't have a hope in hell because people like you genuinely believe this. The figures have already been done. For Labour to form a government it will be a minimum of 10 years unless they achieved a swing of such proportions it would,be a record. The reality is, with now having lost Scotland (one Labour Mp) and lost huge swathes of their working class base, I suspect that are looking at least 15 years and that is dependent on getting rid of that party within a party called Momentum, wiping out the anti semitic Labour members, getting not only a decent leader, but one with a reasonable degree if intelligence...certainly more than Diane Abbott and importantly moving back to being a centre left party that appeals to the mainstream as opposed to extreme left hardcore.

I just can't see it as Labour seem to prefer the high ground of moral protest, as opposed to actual government.

In any event, they have no chance if even the working class won't vote for them. Look at Yvette Cooper. Represents Castleford. You couldn't get more working class and ex mining area. She used to have a thumping majority but has now reduced to 1200. Absolutely incredible but she has lost her support base by basically relying on the good people to keep voting Labour no matter how poor Labour are and how poor she is as an MP. Well she has had a shock and I bet she will suddenly start focusing more and reconnecting with her constituents before she gets the treatment her husband did.

Rosehip are you Scottish or live there?
This election was not reflective of how popular the SNP are.

Scots can not go on forever more with the prospect of independence hanging over their head.

If there is another indy ref in the future (I think there should be) then it needs to be the decision. For a very very long time

And it wasn't just about Brexit...only need to see the interviews being done with their constituents. But labour look like they are trying to persuade themselves it is and all will be well if they carry in regardless

MarieG10

Of course it wasn’t, but it would be silly to think it wasn’t a big factor when in 2017 the same policies and faces took so many more seats.

they’ll be wishing they had remembered who they are and where they’re from.

Attitudes like this helped Labour lose this election.

They could come back if they ditch Momentum, get a good and charismatic leader and move towards the centre, ditching quite a lot of crazy policies along the way. Is that likely? I don’t know but it’s what they need to do.

Justanotherlurker

Maybe, doesn’t stop it being true. If you are a working class member of a working class community and you voted Tory, I respect your democratic right to do whatever you wish, but my opinion is that you’ll regret your choice.

My vote in the last 2 GE's has been about preventing the candidate party I don't want rather than supporting the party I actually vote for.

I am fed up with it.

JC has has my vote twice even though I have never wanted him to be PM.

@MarieG10 Brexit was a massive factor in this election in former labour seats. Many interviews people did just say "why hasn't it happened yet"?

I agree. Unless the left start listening to people saying why they didn’t vote for them.

I don't think this is the case. I can see two kinds of Labour Party that are electable.

The first is a more authentically socialist democratic party - so still quite left wing but not so extreme and unpatriotic, not steeped in corruption, terrorist sympathizers and so on. Not ideologically that different from the party of old, but a lot closer to something we can vote for.

The second is a New New Labour kind of thing. I don't want to see this because when Labour are really Conservative Light or Conservative are really Labour Light all that happens is they disappoint and vulnerable people fall through the cracks.

Option 2 offers far more scope for power. Option 1 is probably what the country needs more, though - selfishly it would be nice to have a Labour Party I could stand to vote for again.

The UK has mostly had Conservative majority governments in recent history, not many instances of Labour majority (was it just Blair and Heath?) so it follows that we will probably have 2 or 3 terms of Tory, then perhaps a hung parliament or coalition or two and then possibly an opposition party will be due a go before it goes back to Conservative. I think Labour needs to completely evolve though, a centre left government is more likely to get somewhere. The UK is essentially moderate, extremes to the left or right are never going to do well. Corbyn/Momentum type of politics will never succeed, just like UKIP Farage type.