Irish racism in England

[angell84]

I am shocked. I am half English, half Irish. My Irish mum lived in England for a long time, gave birth to us children there with her English husband, and then moved back to Ireland.

The reason that she always gave me for returning to Ireland, was that, "she could not take the nastiness to her anymore". She described one incident of many to me: she went to my brother's primary teacher in England, and said that he had lost something, he must have been six at the time, and the teacher said to her , "sure what do you expect - he is half Irish".

I always thought of it in an abstract way, I never really understood what she meant. Until I spent quite a long time in the U.K this year.

I was absolutely shocked at the hatred and nastiness, and calling Irish people stupid.

How can it be possible? The U.K stole alot of Ireland's land, committed mass genocide during the famine, eradicated the Irish language,

And yet instead of apologising, many people are going around calling Irish people stupid.

Isn't it nearly unbelievable? It would be like a German going up to a Jew and calling them stupid. That it was their fault , thhat everything happened the way it did.

I am really shocked

I now live in a very middle class part of the south of Ireland - any further south and I'd fall into Cork Harbour. I can't think of a family where thousands haven't been shelled out to the orthodontist, Irish teeth must rival Americans on J1 visas. Because the J1 is still a middle class thing.

My relations in NI with NHS teeth are truly in the hapenny place!

I spent the eighties in England through events like the Harrods bomb, and I don't remember anyone saying anything racist to me; fairly odd things like 'When is Halloween?' But equally my knowledge of Hereward the Wake wasn't great.

suppose the war in the North (troubles, violence, terrorism, whatever you choose to call it) sullies Ireland's reputation. I think people are resentful of that in Ireland. They really were two very different countries for a while
Sullies Ireland reputation? By standing up to British rules.
Anyway as we know there are 9 counties in the North of Ireland, I grew up in the north of Ireland but not NI.
Northern or Southern Ireland I'm from the Northern Ireland, where these descriptions are in common usage - I only learned it was incorrect via Mumsnet
It is technically wrong though many Nationalists Republicans will always refer to Ireland as a complete country.
DP's granny refused to say she was British in NI. She was Irish in the north of Ireland.
She wasn't alone.
There is a massive case going on at the minute a lady wants to identify as Irish in NI. I'll find the link. I hope she wins.

When I did the J1, it was mostly a way of making more money over the summer, and now-DH (from your neck of the woods, @eggandonion) and I were definitely working class. We all worked two or three jobs and lived in fairly slummy places, and it meant you could work less the next academic year and study more, even factoring in the flight etc. . Some of our friends camped out all summer on Cape Cod while doing fairly lucrative stuff like golf course maintenance and working in a chip factory.

Not are, there was 9 counties in the North of Ireland.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/derry-woman-considers-un-complaint-over-uk-citizenship-ruling-1.4051708

@emeraldshamrock there are 9 counties in the ancient PROVINCE of Ulster. Northern Ireland (ie the region that is part of the UK) has always been 6 counties.

Northern Ireland was created as a separate legal entity on 3 May 1921, under the Government of Ireland Act 1920. The new autonomous Northern Ireland was formed from six of the nine counties of Ulster

I grew up in the north of Ireland but not NI.

DP's granny refused to say she was British in NI. She was Irish in the north of Ireland.

I think it's fair to say we'll refer to Donegal if that's what we're referring to . The North of Ireland is my polite way of saying Northern Ireland (i.e. a different country). God forbid we say the wrong thing.

Agreed. 9 counties in Ulster, 6 of which the British took. They are Down, Derry, Fermanagh, Antrim, Tyrone, Armagh.

The three other counties of Ulster are Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan. They belong to Ireland. Apparently their land wasn't worth fighting for

It's worth mentioning too that Ireland is mountainous in parts, but it also has very flat fertile land in parts. Do you want to guess what sort of land NI has?

@dothehop agrees why something!!! Lordy me, you could knock me down with a feather.

The one county which seems to align itself with British or NI voting is Donegal strangely enough - deeply Catholic.

I know I'm correct in one case if not both cases, but Donegal was the only county in Ireland who voted against gay marriage and it was also if I'm not mistaken, the only county who voted against allowing abortion.
I'm not sure whether it's a DUP influence flowing over or a Catholic influence, but they tend to vote differently to the rest of the country.

Btw to the poster who told us about 3 paragraphs full of how successful her Catholic family is/are/were, can I just say, in your first few words you mention 'Anglo' Irish.
Therefore not Irish. English. Now come back and tell me about the bishops and the solicitors. You seem to have 'good stock' behind ya.

I just feel the need to say this 'you pompous arse'

Now that I've gotten that off my chest.........

Donegal has one of the oldest average inhabitant ages of any county, plus there were only about a couple of thousand votes in it, anyway.

I also agree there’s an Irish look.
Interestingly though I’m of predominantly Irish heritage (with some French thrown in) and I’ve been told I ‘look Russian’ on several occasions - so maybe my theory isn’t foolproof

I too am mostly of Irish heritage, with some French thrown in and have been told I look Russian on several occasions! I wonder if we are related! I also get asked if I'm from Switzerland. (I'm English - me and my parents born here, 3 Irish grandparents and 1 French).

It is technically wrong though many Nationalists Republicans will always refer to Ireland as a complete country. Of course it's geographically wrong. I grew up not knowing anyone who wasn't Catholic - whether they were Nationalist or Republican, I was never asked but if it wasn't Northern Ireland it was Southern Ireland (still is), down south or the older people would call it the "Free State". Referring to Ireland as a geographical land mass would have been unusual - All of Ireland or United Ireland was more common where I came from.

My bil who was from County Kerry and I used to play spot the Biddy when we lived in Australia - we were sure there was an Irish look too and we were often right...it's a difficult thing to describe though, dh who is English was completely clueless.

Donegal has a much older generation, It is a beautiful county in the summer, most if the younger generation leave by 18.

It has been left behind on terms of development and funding very rural in parts.
I grew up in Monaghan and Dublin. My DM is from Monaghan DF Dublin.

I also agree that there's an Irish look. I'm often in an airport or on the tube etc, see people in front of me and think yep, they're Irish. And sure enough...

I used to have an American client once. He looked so Irish, I can't actually describe why, he just did, albeit when he opened his mouth, he had what I'd describe as "perfect American teeth". Anyway I was quite friendly with him and I remember saying to him that I thought he looked really Irish but I wasn't sure why and sure enough he told me that his parents had emigrated to the US from Longford in the early 80s.

Similarly, there was a video doing the rounds recently on social media of a man who had moved to the US in the 70s but sounded like he still lived in Kerry and yet when I saw his teeth, you could tell that he had been in the US for many years. It's not a criticism of Irish teeth but American teeth and Irish teeth are just different, again I can't explain it.

@DoTheHop I'm pretty sure it was Roscommon that was the only county to vote against Gay Marriage

(I suspect the orthodontistry is different, Americans with perfect teeth have a sort of square jaw - I wonder if they tend to have surgical intervention more often in the USA? This is purely based on non scientific observation). I think Richard Bruton looks typically Irish, also yer man who was buried under the patio in Brookside and might be in Fair City now. Also Samantha Power.

@DoTheHop The only time I have been referred to as Southern Irish was in Newry when on my way to a santa visit and was referred to rudely by the woman behind the till to someone else as 'That southern girl'. I was miffed, I am from Dublin which is East.

Also we still are two very different countries still. We were in Belfast earlier in the year and got death eye stares...granted it was Paddys day and we were wearing our greens but even in W5 and the Titanic tour we got people looking at us like they wanted to wallop us. We were all quite intimidated. Not made better of course by my mother referring to my father (divorced so he was not there) as an ex brit soldier every so often. Silly woman. I digress though.

As for the American teeth, they have more access to sun than us lot which would help and teeth were a huge thing for decades in the states before we considered them more than cutlery here. I do recall an old pen pal telling me that in the states it meant you had money if you got braces so even if you didnt need them you got them to show off. My parents had other things to spend money on so no braces for any of us in the 80's although all of us have gone down the cosmetic route in regards to our teeth and at one point, had we been more good looking siblings we may have passed for someone from The Hills.

I tut at RTE having a North Eastern correspondent who tells us about Dundalk or Drogheda, as opposed to Larne or Cushendall.