Irish racism in England

[angell84]

I am shocked. I am half English, half Irish. My Irish mum lived in England for a long time, gave birth to us children there with her English husband, and then moved back to Ireland.

The reason that she always gave me for returning to Ireland, was that, "she could not take the nastiness to her anymore". She described one incident of many to me: she went to my brother's primary teacher in England, and said that he had lost something, he must have been six at the time, and the teacher said to her , "sure what do you expect - he is half Irish".

I always thought of it in an abstract way, I never really understood what she meant. Until I spent quite a long time in the U.K this year.

I was absolutely shocked at the hatred and nastiness, and calling Irish people stupid.

How can it be possible? The U.K stole alot of Ireland's land, committed mass genocide during the famine, eradicated the Irish language,

And yet instead of apologising, many people are going around calling Irish people stupid.

Isn't it nearly unbelievable? It would be like a German going up to a Jew and calling them stupid. That it was their fault , thhat everything happened the way it did.

I am really shocked

And everytime I see that phrase its being used to justify some nationalist pap

@patroclus what does this sentence mean? What's a nationalist pap? I hope you're not referring to an Irish catholic using the term nationalist Papist.

@TellMeWhoTheVilliansAre
@mrsglowglow, I am honestly not trying to be ignorant or goading. But someone posted that their friends get called names because they're rowdy in pubs. As if it was a regular (and acceptable) occurrence. And you are upset by the names they are called?

I'm more upset at how you were justifying that they deserve to be called those names.

I would give the Germans a hard time about what the Nazis did if it looked at all likely of being repeated. Given state of things lately, we all might have cause to.

Whatever happened in the past, is in the past. There is no point constantly raking up what happened in the 19th century. In any event, it is a simplistic view of Irish history. A lot of Irish wanted to be part of the UK. And Michael Collins was murdered by other Irish for not being nationalist enough!

It is also a simplistic view of British history. At the time of the famine, as I mentioned, my English ancestors would have been working in the cotton mills. Not exactly pleasant. They probably had zero idea about what was happening in Ireland, never mind any part in it. And they didn't get a vote, either, so they weren't responsible in any way for the British government's action or inaction.

@Piglet89

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/who-were-the-black-irish.amp

I heard this term recently. It seems to be mostly used in the US though.

@bettyjean really interesting article. I know several families with these dark features. Strangers have assumed I am Spanish when I have returned from holiday in hotter climes. Although I am from Belfast, I have dark eyes and hair and skin that tans.

Blauelagune I would accept your argument about not raking up the past more if the English didn't go on so much about the blitz and how they won WW2. Also every November people wear a poppy to remember Ww1 and those who died. We are not talking about just the 19th century alone. Cork city was burned to the ground by British soldiers in 1920, Black and tans murdered innocent men, women and children at a GAA match the same year. The did many terrible atrocities in the name of the British government in the early 20th century. So why is it right to remember those who died in Ww1 but not those who were murdered by British soldiers in Ireland around the same period. I find some of the posts on here quite dismissive, Ireland as a country was destroyed by British rule, people hunted of their land, punished for speaking their own language, killed for following their own religion. Irish people were shipped to other countries to treated as badly as slaves and yes they were starved. 1 million died and another million forced into immigration in coffin ships. No one is blaming the British public of the time ( and definitely not now) but their government, their army and those landlords and officials in Ireland who carried out these terrible things are most definitely to blame. The history between Ireland and Britain is not pretty but that doesn't mean it should be forgotten, just because you don't like the narrative doesn't mean it should be dismissed. You can't pick and choose the parts of history you like. Britain was a great Empire but it did terrible things to countries like Ireland, Africa and India to become so great and we are not talking hundreds of years ago either, a lot of it was done in the 20 th century.

I have Irish parents.
Moved to England when I was small and I feel "English" whatever that is.
I have never encountered racism re the Irish here but frequently encounter awful anti English bigotry when we go over to visit relatives.
There are villages in the south where our family have advised us not to park the car as it has English plates and will be vandalised.

Whatever happened in the past, is in the past. There is no point constantly raking up what happened in the 19th century. In any event, it is a simplistic view of Black history. A lot of Blacks wanted to be slaves

See what I did there?
If someone came out with a statement like that, there would be uproar, and rightly so.

To deny the history of Ireland and what the British did to us because hey it’s in the past and we should get over it and move on is at best disrespectful.
I’ve mentioned upthread that I’ve never experienced racism in the UK and I know that modern Britain is not what empire it once was, I love it here, but to write it off as just the history of another small European country is quite wrong and a bit of a kick in the teeth.

Yes, @Serin, thanks for that contribution. Clearly the suggestion that your car might have been vandalised means English people are in fact victims of vengeful Irish people.

Oh come off it Serin. I haven't heard of one case of vandalisation of an English reg car

I’m British, my DH is Irish. We have lived in Dublin and in the UK and I can honestly say that neither I nor he have experienced any racism whatsoever. Perhaps we have just been lucky.

A lot of this seems to come down to a lack of historical acknowledgment. But given that Britain does remember its war dead in WW1 and 2, don’t the Irish mark their struggle and victory for independence every year? The reason that Britain marks the armistice is not because of the Government, but to remember the ordinary men who died in these conflicts. It’s not for lauding generals or empire. It’s origins are to respect the dead and account in part for the mistakes made. It’s not a victory march. These wars nearly finished us off and made us bankrupt.

This is not a goady question, btw. Do the Irish mark their independence and if so, how?

I only read the first two pages and this one. Jeez - I was close enough to renouncing my GB passport this yesterday. It's racist bigots like those on this thread that make it even more attractive. After all, when it comes to it, Britain is now dead - it just hasn't realised it yet.,

I’m Irish 22 (Northern Irish if it makes a difference) and you can definitely tell I am from my accent and I love in London now and have never experienced anything like that in my life, I have been more insulted in Ireland (come from a half catholic half Protestant family) tbh. Was this along time ago because people just seem fascinated with my accent, at least it can act as an ice breaker when I meet new people

So you didn’t renounce your passport then...

I am English living in Ireland with my Irish husband and children, but grew up in England with an Irish mother and English dad.
I remember bus drivers in the 80s making comments about bombs in her bag to my mum, she got a lot of smart comments it was mortifying for her.But she always brushed it off, she is still in the uk.

But all these years later and especially with Brexit, Ireland is not a welcoming place to be British. The Brits are not liked here period, but it's more snide than direct, not everyone of course, not my husband, but certainly his family,overall there is distain, so the Irish are well able to dish it out, despite being recipients of it in the past and now.

But as you are English you have to be eternally sorry for 800 years of history that you personally had nothing to do with.Trust me I know it's not a history to be proud of but move the fuck on, nothing is solved by looking backwards.
Just my own perspective.

I'm English, I live near Dudley.

Yes I've witnessed quite a few anti Irish comments, usually disguised in the way of 'jokes'. Stuff like... well he's Irish, what do you expect? (about drinking)... and it's laughed off as 'banter' when it's actually quite offensive.

It probably depends where you live.

Someone from one area of England could say no, this doesn't exist, you're being ridiculous and someone from another area of England could say yes I hear it all of the time.

Of course we mark days of importance in Ireland, we also remember those who died in the world wars, my point in my p ost was how some Posters are so dismissive of what happened in Ireland and denounce those that bring up the past because they only want to remember the British soldiers when they are the 'good guys'. Let's forget about the atrocities they committed in Ireland, Africa, India etc. By the way by the time Ireland became independent, it was ruined. Centuries of it's natural assets being robbed by the British Empire left it penniless. And how dare anyone tell us to move on, would you tell a Jewish person to get over what happened to their family in ww2 or a black person to stop talking about their slave ancestors? I don't think so. What's laughable is how Brexit has brought out all those who talk about when Britain was great and bringing back the good old days,of the Empire

Ireland was destroyed by Britain. Our language, our culture, our population almost wiped out. Yes it's in the past, yes it's not the fault of people living now, or even of the common man that lived then, but it simply cannot be forgotten, and nor should it be. What the irish lost can never be recovered and I think that the attitude of a lot of Brits, that it's in the past and wasn't that big a deal anyway, causes a lot of the bitterness and resentment that remains.

I’m sure you realise that there is quite a big difference between the men who fought in the wars from Britain and those that committed atrocities in Ireland.

These men were conscripted after the volunteers ran out. If you had been in the British Army for those times when they ran amok in Ireland, they would have been professional soldiers paid to do so. That’s a world away from conscripted men who little to no choice. The world wars weren’t a kind of imperial war. They devastated the general population of the country. It’s about ordinary man, not pomp and circumstance.

@Deadjinglebellringer you’ve hit the nail on the head.

move the fuck on what a lovely attitude. Why don't you visit Auschwitz and tell the Polish and Jewish they should do the same.

Well said @deadjinglebellringer

It would help if the history curriculum in English schools at least covered the topic. It's not 'just like any small European country' as a previous poster stated. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and by learning the history we would have an understanding of how the present day Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland came to be. Our closest neighbour but most people in England have very little knowledge of the subject unless they choose to learn it themselves.