To be fuming with my 4yo?

[Jellybeansincognito]

I have 2 children- 4 and 2.
The 4 year old started school this September and I’ve noticed she has begun smacking her brother in anger.

She has cracked him round the face this afternoon whilst holding her plastic drink cup, it has left a scratch and bruise on his face. I am furious with her.

I have sent her upstairs whilst I consider an appropriate punishment but AIBU being absolutely fuming with her?

How do I even begin to deal with this?

Thanks @LittleDragonGirl - fully taken that on board

It sounds as though you need to find ways to separate them, especially after school. She gets praise for sitting at the table doing some Lego, he gets praise for sitting on the floor (not near her feet) playing with blocks. Or whatever, but separate activities.

And, just to check, would you have treated her climbing on an older child at nearly three the same way as you treat her brother climbing on her? Could there be any element of ‘he’s a boisterous boy, he’ll grow out of it’ and ‘she’s a girl, she shouldn’t be rough or hit’ double standards going on? These things are very ingrained in us, even if we think we’re treating boys and girls the same, quite often we’re not...

His punishment isn't enough though. It's not having an impact on him. Why doesn't your dd get the same punishment?

there is 2 years between them, he doesn’t have the emotional understanding she does. It would be unfair to punish them the same.

Absolutely nothing is working with him atm- I feel a bit lost with him tbh.

Suggestions welcome!

She’ll get a sticker every day for not hitting him

Give her coping strategies and reward her for using them.
If her brother is bothering her, what do you want her to do? Move away? Call you for help? What if he climbs on her? What if he grabs her stuff? Work out a strategy with her.

I’ve asked her to move away and come and tell me- so I can deal with it for her.

She knows he has been naughty too, I have told her I am not happy with him climbing on her, and that I’m cross she reacted with violence and not come and tell me.

My 2yo gets put in their room. It's safe and they can't get out or harm themselves.

@Jellybeansincognito “actually have that somewhere but haven’t read it, thanks for reminding me”

I listened to it on audiobook. Every now and then I re-listen to the chapters I need.

It helps me to feel more in control of the situation with my daughter (just turned 5) when she is naughty. She’s very head strong and this technique works nearly all of the time.

They also have an app and a Facebook group.

It's the penultimate week of a long term. School routines are messed up. At least half of the class are run down with colds/bugs. Everyone is shattered.
DS1's coping threshold is usually lowest around this stage of the term and DS2 tends to be a favoured target.

When DS1 is in that kind of mood (frequently as he has HFA and is exhausted after masking all day at school, and it is common in younger NT children too), he goes to his room for quiet time with a drink and something to eat until he is ready to talk about the choices he made. If he did something particularly outrageous there may be an additional consequence such as a reduction of tech time. There needs to be an understanding that the child reacted out of distress, but also that their reaction was the wrong way of dealing with it.

Quiet 1:1 time with each child is valuable and they need their own personal space.

Same age gap as mine, OP. They, too, would fight over thin air (still do, and DC1 is technically an adult now).

When they were younger, I used to make sure DC2 was in bed before DC1. That way, DC1 had half an hour of guaranteed time just with me/us.

DC1 was prone to lash out, and DC2 knew this from a very young age. XH and I used to call it "pesting". Many, many times did I remove her before it got to the hitting and meltdown stage (didn't always, as it sometimes happened too quickly).

Is there any way you can ensure your DD has a bit of physical and emotional space from her brother on a regular basis? I know it's hard when they are both small enough to need you around pretty much all the time - but even if you just pick up DS and move him away from DD every time he looks set to encroach on her space in a negative way it would give him the message that he needs to leave her alone, and it would give her the message that you're taking her needs seriously.

I disagree with PP who said that Father Christmas removing presents teaches them that actions have consequences. No it doesn't. It teaches them that adults apparently do really random and bewildering and unfair things.

The only natural consequence to a child using a toy/cup/whatever as a weapon is to remove said toy/cup/whatever. By all means remove the child, too, if s/he needs to calm down (or if you both do - I've been there a million times over).

In the situation you describe, it would have confiscated the item and would have told DD very firmly that she wasn't to hit anyone. I would also have removed DS from her space and said he wasn't to climb on anyone. If he continued to climb on her, I'd have removed him completely (to another room, the bottom of the stairs - anywhere safe and boring) for three minutes, with an explanation why, and would then have spent those three minutes with DD alone. Repeat until he learns to leave her alone.

If you can sort this aspect of DD's relationships out now, she might be generally less inclined to lash out.

All easier said than done, obviously. And I would love to know from 'old hands' how to deal with a horrendous teenage DD.

I put my daughter in her room if she’s lashing out. I explain that I’m protecting myself, I don’t want to get hurt (or for anyone else to get hurt).

I’ve tried to put him in his room- he just opens the door and leaves.

He is a screamer also- my poor neighbours.

At almost three, your youngest is old enough to be put in some form of time out. She was punished for her behaviour but all he got was a talking to.

I’ve tried to put him in his room- he just opens the door and leaves.

Put a baby gate over the door.

I’ve asked her to move away and come and tell me- so I can deal with it for her.
How if he's climbing on her? IS she to push him off or will she get into trouble for that?
You have not given her a strategy for dealing with him climbing on her at all.

She knows he has been naughty too, I have told her I am not happy with him climbing on her, and that I’m cross she reacted with violence and not come and tell me.
Yes, my dm used to say similar. "yes I know he's being deliberately annoying, and he knows he shouldn't have done it, but what I can I do because he doesn't care what I do. But you shouldn't have reacted because that's what he wants".
Or otherwise known as "he can do anything he wants without being in trouble."

Your DS’s behaviour sounds like as much if not more of an issue than DD’s. I would be cautious of teaching her not to stand up for herself/her personal space.

I appreciate she hit him when he sat next to her the other day but if you do essentially allow him to climb on her/be in her personal space, shout and scream...etc then at 4 years old she’s within her right to not tolerate that. DS may learn to calm down if he gets a slap once in a while. I wouldn’t say this if the age gap was bigger but almost 3 and 4 are really not that different.

I agree with the majority. She needs somewhere where she can relax in peace.

I still believe in the naughty step to think about actions and then a big apology from her or send to her room a LA super nanny. Or take something away from her that she will miss no fav TV programme or something (not her fav teddy obvs)

So you punish her for reacting but you cannot deal with him effectively yourself.

As you can understand, the advice is conflicting.
That it was unfair to send her upstairs/ then being told I’m not punishing my 2 year old enough and put him in his room

He doesn’t get away with it and I don’t let him do it- he is just going through a stage of being really hard work and I haven’t worked out a method of discipline that works with him.

I’m going to give the book a go and try being more firm with him to see if it helps- although I already think I’m pretty firm with him for his age.

We’ll see. Note taken- I obviously don’t want her to feel to blame all the time and j don’t want her to think he gets away with it.

Dont over do the response. The first few terms are very tiring even if they love it

There is too much emphasis on punishment on this thread. The are four and nearly three. Their brain development just doesn’t know how to deal with impulse.

My eldest is 25 and youngest is three and tbh this is normal behaviour. There is no way your four year old Intended to inflict those injuries. I’ve never been a big fan of sending kids to their rooms. It’s isolating and can be confusing when the dont fully understand what they’ve actually done. I’d never want any of my kids to feel ostracised.

My three year old and six year old clash sometimes. We deal with it on the spot - then move on. ( although my six year old is a flouncer and may strop off but will eventually float back down to discuss the issue) No shame or guilt needed just talking to both sat very closely to each other discussing what happened and how it’s made the injured party feel. An apology is accepted then we move on with family life.

A two year old will have zero cognitive understanding why they have been removed and placed in a room - alone. They are being removed solely because the parent can’t deal with the issue, which isn’t fair.

Stop him climbing on her.

Or take something away from her that she will miss no fav TV programme or something (not her fav teddy obvs)

She did. The op told her that she had spoken to Santa and Santa took a present away from her.