Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be fuming with my 4yo?

94 replies

Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 15:51

I have 2 children- 4 and 2.
The 4 year old started school this September and I’ve noticed she has begun smacking her brother in anger.

She has cracked him round the face this afternoon whilst holding her plastic drink cup, it has left a scratch and bruise on his face. I am furious with her.

I have sent her upstairs whilst I consider an appropriate punishment but AIBU being absolutely fuming with her?

How do I even begin to deal with this?

OP posts:
Original poster
Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 16:57

‘Is it possible that your 2 year old really misses the sibling but this is manifesting itself in behaviour that she is finding hard to tolerate after a day at school. ‘

^
Yes, he definitely does miss her.

Regarding the games/ reading etc- this in itself causes so much drama between them.

Perhaps I need to start separating them with activities after school though- maybe 2 different craft areas?

I don’t think it helps that we only ever buy toys for Christmas and birthdays (which are near Xmas) so they’re pretty bored of their toys at the moment.
Perhaps this will help too.

OP posts:
peanutfoldover · 10/12/2019 16:57

The book “How to talk so little kids will listen” addresses this issue. I’ve found it really useful.

Original poster
Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 16:59

Yes I did ask why she did it- she couldn’t really articulate a response.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 16:59

I actually have that somewhere but haven’t read it, thanks for reminding me @peanutfoldover

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 10/12/2019 17:01

She is four. The santa thing was too much, especially as it could be seen as self defence... 4 minutes time out, and talking to her would be enough.

You have to deal with her brother as well. It is not fair to her to have him interfere with her and expect her to keep calmer than an adult.

diddl · 10/12/2019 17:02

Sounds as if he needs to be sent to his room so that she can have some peace with you!

Does he go to bed before her?

Does she get any rest from him?

PhilomenaChristmasPie · 10/12/2019 17:05

She'll be knackered, I know all mine were after a school day at 4. Keep her away from him and encourage her to do something relaxing. Maybe bring bedtime forward.

Original poster
Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 17:07

I don’t think I’ve been too hard regarding Santa really- she doesn’t know what she’s lost out on- it’s giving her a reason to change her reactions also.

Sounds like he needs to be sent to his room to get some peace- he literally screams the house down- nothing peaceful about it.

they go to bed at the same time

Does she get any rest from him? Yes- at school!- in all seriousness this thread has made me recognise this which is why I’ll take her out alone on Sunday and leave little brother at home with daddy.

OP posts:
PlinkPlink · 10/12/2019 17:08

Sorry for the essay.

I had an email newsletter from Sarah Ockwell Smith recently that mentioned something that might explain this behaviour:

When you make your child feel loved, safe, supported and respected with you, they feel comfortable enough to be their authentic selves with you, or in other words, they don’t have to pretend or ‘be good’ anymore. They have spent all day, at school, holding in frustration, fear, anxiety, anger and other uncomfortable emotions, because they know that it is “naughty” to let them out at school. When they get home to you however things are entirely different. There’s a massive release. Imagine your child at school and everything they have to deal with as being a bottle of fizzy drink. They have spent all day being shaken, building pressure, but have ‘been good’ and managed to keep their lid screwed on tightly. When they see you, the need to release is huge, pop, off comes the lid and the ensuing spray of all that has been bottled up inside. The technical term for this is restraint collapse, but I much prefer to think of that bottle finally releasing its pressure.

Sounds to me like your DD is taking her frustrations out on her brother a little. Perhaps you can suggest her moving away and giving herself some space away from her brother when she feels annoyed by him? Come up with strategies together maybe?

MyMajesty · 10/12/2019 17:08

This doesnt need punishing it needs looking at to avoid it happening. She certainly should not be made to deal with him after school

Your DD must feel on edge all the time, in case her brother does something unpleasant to her, since he often does that.
So, just sitting next to her could be a lead-in to him climbing on her and she lashed out as a reflex.

As the adult, you need to be making the situation safer for her, in whatever way could suit you all.

Wildorchidz · 10/12/2019 17:10

I did go up and explained that I have spoken to Santa who has removed a present.

What possessed you to think that was a good idea????
I cannot understand why anyone would use this as a means of disciplining a small child.
What will you threaten her with in January- no Easter Bunny ??

Kitkatcuppa · 10/12/2019 17:10

Hi similar ages to mine. Mines also started reception. She hasn't been hurting her brother but she can be so snappy with us. She's so tired though and I think after school she's just wanting me to focus on her, not ask her too much and feed her lol.

You are right to angry and to of told her off. Perhaps get her a chart or just draw one. Pop it on the fridge. I tell mine she can have a smiley face if she's good and reaches whichever target. So last week she had to be super good at school. She had been abit lively in class and it worked and the teacher said she improved.

It's probably just tiredness and overwhelmed and all the rest. Hope she settles soon. This age is a tricky one x

Kitkatcuppa · 10/12/2019 17:11

@Wildorchidz I do this too. Loads of parents do. It does then good to learn bad behaviour has consequences.

Wildorchidz · 10/12/2019 17:13

Yes. But it should be the parents who teach them. Not Santa.

GrumpyHoonMain · 10/12/2019 17:13

She’s doing it because her 3 yo brother is doing it and as you aren’t disciplining him sees it as okay. You need to start enforcing better boundaries with him - he’s only a year younger than her. He could be heavier too (my DN was heavier than his elder sister when he was 2 and she 4).

Original poster
Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 17:13

‘ What possessed you to think that was a good idea????
I cannot understand why anyone would use this as a means of disciplining a small child.
What will you threaten her with in January- no Easter Bunny ??’

^ it teaches cause and effect, it gives her an incentive to stop reacting by hitting also.

She’ll get a sticker every day for not hitting him.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 17:15

Of course I discipline him, nothing is working with him atm though- very tough age with him.

I can’t pull him away instantly every time he annoys her- it’s not just the climbing although it was the cause of today and is quite a big issue atm.

OP posts:
Clymene · 10/12/2019 17:16

Did she pick up the cup deliberately to hit him with it or did he climb on her while she was holding it? Because if she was already holding it, it was an accident.

A 4 year old doesn't have the cognitive ability to look at a cup and assess what level of damage it will do when she's acting out of impulse.

hifolks · 10/12/2019 17:17

Hungry? Tired? Viral?

" Kind hands"

Clymene · 10/12/2019 17:17

And again, what punishment has been meted out to him?

From what you've said, he is badly behaved and nothing happens; she's badly behaved and gets punished.

I appreciate that he's only 2 but that's how she'll be processing it.

Original poster
Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 17:18

All 3 at that time most likely- it doesn’t matter what time of day it is however especially at the weekend.

They can fight over thin air 😩

OP posts:
Kitkatcuppa · 10/12/2019 17:18

All siblings fight and squabble abit too. Don't be hard on yourself just keep doing what you see fit. You know what works best for her. I personally think the santa threat is a good idea this month haha. They will grow out of this habit. Funnily enough my son's climbing allover his sister as we speak and she's singing to him. It's normal for them to get along sometimes and tell tales the next. xx

Teachermaths · 10/12/2019 17:19

Leave him in his room. He needs to learn that his behaviour isn't acceptable. He can't wind her up and have no consequences and then she gets santa taking presents etc when she retaliates. It's not fair.

Original poster
Jellybeansincognito · 10/12/2019 17:20

his punishment was me sternly telling him it is not ok to climb on people because it hurts them.

OP posts:
LittleDragonGirl · 10/12/2019 17:21

I agree with previous PP that you need to get down to her level and talk about what happened. Children are not born with the ability to understand, name and rationalise emotions, and one of our jobs as parents is to help them do so. (hence most children go through a stage of acting out due to being unable to understand and communicate there feelings and thus get very fustrated).
I personally would focus on sitting with her, and talking to her, asking her why we don't hit and hurt people? How would she feel if someone hit/hurt her in the same way? And asking her to explain why she felt the need to do, then help her name the emotions, was it because she was angry or fed up or tired or had a very long day in school etc, which in time will give her the necessary ability to in future communicate with you that she is tired and therefore does not want her brother to climb over her, or to even recognise how she is feeling in herself and remove herself from the situation when she is able to recognise these feelings in a non-violent manner. I feel its important to remember that yes 4 year old are able to start learning responsibility and right and wrong, but as adults we also have to put the effort into teaching healthy and effective alternative to dealing with strong emotions (but not BAD as no emotion is BAD, only peoples BEHAVIOUR in response to a strong emotion). I agree that some discipline is necessary so she knows she has done wrong, but i personally would avoid banishing to the bedroom, maybe sitting on a chair in the room you are in for a few minutes/until she is calm again, at which point you can calmly talk about the behaviour, the what, why and how she can respond in future which would be more appropriate.
Its also okay to tell a child that you are upset at their behaviour (or hurt that they hit/hurt you) but IMO its equally important in the same sentence to remind them that no matter how they behave you will always love them. As this enforces that they are loved unconditionally but also that their actions have impact on other peoples feelings and allows then to start learning to consider how people feel and how they have a impact on other people and that peoples feelings and emotions are independent to them as individuals.