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AIBU?

The privileged feminist vote

177 replies

Home2018 · 09/12/2019 23:33

So, there have been many conversations about intersectionality, always approached from a theoretical standpoint.

However, I think this GE and the focus of the vast majority of threads referring to the GE on the feminism boards may be a good example to highlight some of the points being made by woc.

For comparison, I was listing to a BBC R4 talk the other day and a young northerner spoke about his vote. The interviewer asked him about Brexit, as they did with all interviewees, and he said that focusing on Brexit in comparison to the NHS, welfare state and education as a low paid father of a disabled child in an underfunded state system was a privilege.

Which, sort of brings me to my point.

Many woc feel that the mainstream feminist narrative is centred on privileged women trying to seek equality alongside privileged men, rather than female allegiance focused on trying to ensure equality for those that need the voices of those more fortunate to level thier even lesser playing field.

In the run up to this GE, in comparison to issues such as the NHS, education for the poorest children in our society - half of them being the least privileged girls, state benefits for the poorest, the disabled, carers (again, most of which are women), racism against all minorities etc, can many on these boards say that thier focus has been on using their vote for the most vulnerable, most in need women? Or, unfortunately, themselves and the quest for equality among two of societies most privileged groups?

Whilst self ID is an extremely important issues which needs to be explored, during an election which literally comes down to protecting the rights of the haves and have nots, is spoiling your vote on an issue which isnt affecting women to the same extent to which issues as above are, as we speak, the true, sisterly, inclusive and non self centred feminist way to go?

I speak as a women whose neighbor's cancer suffering aunt was deported as part of the windrush debacle. She was a woman who devoted her life to caring for others. Men and women included. In an election such as this, do we not stand up for the elderly, less politically and educationally astute? For many of whom this election equals life and death. Or do we make a point?Is self ID and the focus on that the same? Is it more important? Does the suffering of those less able in society even feature?

Or, do you spoil you ballot over this one issue over many others that are here, right now, and the poorest most vulnerable women in society are left to suffer from alone?

Do you vote (or abstain from voting) to make a single point knowing fully well that the party that will win will literally disregard the human rights of societies most vulnerable people.

Disproportionately affecting women as result?

Honest question!

OP posts:
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CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/12/2019 11:48

The sentiment that anyone is voting conservative because it’s ‘best for women’ is just plain ridiculous to me. Sadly you can put any other party in there and come up with the same result. That's the problem!

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Thelnebriati · 10/12/2019 11:50

Self ID will negatively affect BAME women. If you cant see how, I doubt you actually know any.

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OunceOfFlounce · 10/12/2019 11:50

I agree the Harry the Owl thing is crazy but I don't know how it's proof that Labour are authoritarian. I'm not completely familiar with the case and a v quick Google doesn't indicate how it goes any way to proving Labour are authoritarian.

Plenty of examples of criminalising political dissent under this tory government.

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BovaryX · 10/12/2019 11:51

It's the attempts to criminalise political dissent (see Harry the Owl's judicial review). It's the Lysenkoism of science denial and the introduction of a form of modern day anti blasphemy laws

Well said. This is about freedom of speech, inter alia, which is facing an existential threat from a faction of authoritarian ideologues whose weapon of choice is spurious allegations of bigotry as a bludgeon to shut people up. Their desire to control language, dictate debate, demonise anyone who refuses to submit to finger wagging lectures about how to vote? Predictable and tiresome.

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OunceOfFlounce · 10/12/2019 11:52

We've said we know self id will negatively affect bame women but think the cumulative affect of Johnston/trump economics will effect them more.

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BovaryX · 10/12/2019 11:52

Plenty of examples of criminalising political dissent under this tory government

Can you give one? With a corroborating link to a mainstream media source?

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OunceOfFlounce · 10/12/2019 11:53

Harry the owl?

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BovaryX · 10/12/2019 11:55

Harry the Owl certainly shows the extent of the regulatory and institutional capture wielded by the secretive lobby group who are promoting self ID.

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MarshaBradyo · 10/12/2019 11:55

Can you say who you think is best to vote for and why?

I want to understand what you’re saying but am on the fly it would be easier to get what you’re saying

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MarshaBradyo · 10/12/2019 11:55

Not that I’m going to follow it but I might be able to say why not

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CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/12/2019 11:56

Self ID will negatively affect BAME women. If you cant see how, I doubt you actually know any. Did anyone say it would NOT?

The attempt at demonising 'rich white women' is equally ridiculous!

EVERY party currently has a Self ID policy that will negatively affect ALL women!

What is your desired outcome? Woman set against woman along lines of age, race, socio-economic status? Or all women fighting a common legislative enemy?

If the first you are most definitely part of the problem!

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GCAcademic · 10/12/2019 11:57

I agree the Harry the Owl thing is crazy but I don't know how it's proof that Labour are authoritarian. I'm not completely familiar with the case and a v quick Google doesn't indicate how it goes any way to proving Labour are authoritarian.

You should check out their chilling interrogation of Venice Allen for "transphobia". See also various Labour mayors and councillors stating that posting stickers with the dictionary definition of woman will be treated as a hate crime. Labour Womens' Officer saying that BAME women who can't be in a state of undress in front of men need to be "educated", and hounding longstanding women activists out of the local branch because of wrongthink.

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CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/12/2019 12:00

Is there a collected post of that info, for Bovary and anyone else who might find it useful? I thought there was but can't remember who, or what it was called.

It would be quite old now, just before the mass resignation. I remember it being one of the reasons I went back to FWR, I had found other Labour members who had resigned over it!

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BovaryX · 10/12/2019 12:01

I believe in low tax, small state. I believe freedom of thought and speech has been subject to a virulent, relentless attack by an aggressive lobby group who want to criminalize dissent and prevent discussion of their radical agenda. I do not subscribe to the authoritarian top down command economy idiocy peddled by McDonnell et al. I also believe that the failure to imprison recidivist violent offenders needs to change. Trite slogans about evil Tories cut no ice with me. And I am certainly not going to vote for muppets whose tenuous grasp of external reality is both laughable. And chilling.

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Murraygoldberg · 10/12/2019 12:01

For me self Id is the most important issue, however it is because of its affects on the more vulnerable, women's prisons, refuges, teenage girls, these do not affect me but to me it is the most important issue because of how it will impact on those more vulnerable than me

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OunceOfFlounce · 10/12/2019 12:02

Yep, 57GCAcademic. Aware of that. Have resigned my membership (sorry to anyone who's rtft!) but still think Johnson/Trump will hurt more people and ruin more lives.

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GCAcademic · 10/12/2019 12:02

What is your desired outcome? Woman set against woman along lines of age, race, socio-economic status? Or all women fighting a common legislative enemy?

Sadly much of what passes for left-wing activism today is identity politics, aka. the increasing atomisation of society according to ever expanding categories of oppression, the logical outcome of which is a country of comprised of individual units with nothing in common and in perpetual competition with each other. In other words the kind of neoliberal, no-such-thing-as-society ideology that they profess to hate.

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MarshaBradyo · 10/12/2019 12:02

Self ID turned me off Lib Dem. The R4 interview did it.

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BovaryX · 10/12/2019 12:03

See also various Labour mayors and councillors stating that posting stickers with the dictionary definition of woman will be treated as a hate crime

Good grief. It’s just incredible. Are they using the Stasi as a paradigm?

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OunceOfFlounce · 10/12/2019 12:05

Slogans about evil Tories cut no ice with you because you are a tory. This debate is among people on the left regarding wether self id is more important than the effects of a modern right wing government.

If you rtft, Murraygoldberg, a few people have considered that already.

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CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/12/2019 12:06

Sadly much of what passes for left-wing activism today is identity politics I know. Meeting The Cult of Me on the streets is bad enough, you can dismiss it as an indivisul beig slefish. But online... mass self absorbdness is harder to ignore.

I've said it before, old sci fi writers like Heinlein predicted this. Casual rudeness, self-as-paramount being the biggest sign of the decline of civilisation. I used to think it was an amusing theory. But it isn't funny living it!

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Leighhalfpennysthigh · 10/12/2019 12:08

Sorry, but to me and millions of other women Brexit is more important, as is protecting our public services and that's why I vote - have always voted and will always vote for Labour.

I'm afraid that in the real world what gender people want to identify as is not a pressing issue and I refuse to be emotionally blackmailed into thinking that I'm "not a proper feminist" if my priorities are different to yours and anyone elses.

Women are not a hive mind.

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BovaryX · 10/12/2019 12:08

Nope. You don’t get to control who is engaged in this debate. The OP started this thread to chastise women for refusing to simply line up and vote Labour, despite their policies on Self ID. In a democracy, everyone is free to vote for whomever they please, or spoil their ballot. Women don’t need your permission to do either

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OunceOfFlounce · 10/12/2019 12:08

GCAcademic, can you envision any working class or woc who genuinely feel their concerns aren't important to the majority of feminists? Do you have any concerns about dismissing anyone speaking about a minority issue as playing oppression top trumps?

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CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/12/2019 12:08

Slogans about evil Tories cut no ice with you because you are a tory. This debate is among people on the left regarding wether self id is more important than the effects of a modern right wing government. No! That's part of the sleight of hand. Left and Right are nigh on indivisible these days!

The debate is fast becoming woman vs woman. And many, Left and Right, are happy with that, as they can throw all the usual brickbats!

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