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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this a red flag?

93 replies

goldencuttains · 08/12/2019 08:21

Bizarre conversation with man last evening.He's not really interested in sex and says it's over rated yet he wants to pursue a romantic relationship.Cut and run?

OP posts:
messolini9 · 08/12/2019 11:37

Sometimes it feels like he is moulding
Me to be what he wants me to be and I am
Doing it without even realising. His friends are all married with children.
Another thing that bothers me is that he talks about himself ALOT and can be insensitive without meaning to be.

@goldencuttains - the low sex drive is a red herring.
THIS^ is your red flag.
Run.

Frenchw1fe · 08/12/2019 11:43

@messolini9
I think it’s not his dislike of women wearing make up, revealing clothes etc but his contempt and opinion that they are slutty. That’s what is weird. I don’t particularly like muscle men types but I don’t hold them in contempt.

messolini9 · 08/12/2019 11:46

How dare he comment on women's clothes and hair?!
I expect he dares in the same way that women comment on women's clothes & hair. Or women on men's. Or men on men's.
It's not illegal or even immoral to have an opinion while being in possession of a penis.

However, I'd dump him & run for the Queen Bee mother-worshipping.
PP above who mentioned madonna/whore complex probably has the right of it.

OP if you are already changing what you wear & how you present your appearance TO SUIT OR APPEASE HIM then for fucksake stop doing so immediately & withdraw from this relationship.
Having strong opinions is fine. Expecting other people to contort themselves to comply with them is outrageous.

messolini9 · 08/12/2019 11:57

@frenchw1fe wotcher, agreed ... posted before seeing every OP update ... am way more concerned about this geezer's controlling behaviours than his lack of sex drive.

Tableclothing · 08/12/2019 12:41

Given the updates, I retract my earlier statement about not seeing red flags. There are many red flags here.

How does a Madonna / whore complex work out in a relationship ultimately ?

(Apologies for liberal use of the word whore below. I'm talking about the archetypes within the complex, not about actual people)

Badly, for the woman.

You will find that he dictates what you wear, how you have your hair, what make up you put on. If you go against his diktats, he'll punish you (because that would be a "whorish" thing to do, and in his head, "whores" deserve to be punished).

Certain activities, places and people will be deemed inappropriate. This could be a bar, a theatre on a Friday night, an outgoing female friend, any other males. As things escalate, it will become "anywhere or anyone unless he is present". You may find that your own family are not considered good enough, and he will not understand/allow you to spend time with anyone apart from his female relatives. Expect to be compared unfavourably to them.

You may find that certain career choices are deemed whorish. Being a nursery assistant might be ok, as long as you don't talk to the dads. But you're more likely to find that Madonnas are expected to be SAHM. And only have access to money he gives you. And have to account to him for what you've spent it on. You "won't need" any savings, pension or property of your own, of course. Madonnas don't need money. Only whores are motivated by money.

Sex? Well, it might not happen. As you've already found out, it'll be in the dark, in one position only (was it from behind, by any chance? so he doesn't have to look at you). If you show enjoyment, that's likely to be a turn off for him, because in his head, only whores enjoy sex. And if you're a whore, he can't like you, because that's beneath him.

Someone with a Madonna/whore complex divides women into two groups.

The Madonnas are glorious, beautiful, untouchable, totally asexual. They have no existence outside the domestic sphere. Named after the Virgin Mary, they are an idealised mother figure, they don't have careers or opinions or sex.

Whores are sexual and filthy. They are the equivalent of cheap plastic toys, to be thrown away. Men with Madonna/whore complexes find the whores sexy, but are disgusted with themselves for lowering themselves to the whores' level, and they hate the whore in question for having tempted them into sex (which they think is fundamentally dirty, in a bad way).

OP, if this bloke is charming and funny and seems so great and yet has reached the age of 35 with no other woman having had a relationship with him, then you need to wonder why that might be. There could be many reasons, but if he's got a Madonna/whore complex that will be why.

The complex separates all women into one category or the other. There is no middle ground. As no one can ever live up to the Madonna fantasy (and why would you want to?), sooner or later he'll see you as a whore. And he'll hate you for it.

Do ask him about his exes. Send me a fiver if he uses the word slag/slut/slapper/bitch.

goldencuttains · 08/12/2019 14:10

It's taken me all this time to digest that. So much of what you have said rings true.
He passes comments on my clothes/ hair/ nails.He doesn't like me making noise during sex or at least says there is not a need for ' noises'.He has never said that he finds sex filthy but I know by his face that he has the ick about the messy ness of sex. He refuses to give oral and doesn't want it.His mother sisters cousins and friends are on a pedestal.He like me to look demure and pretty. He calls it classy.

OP posts:
MulticolourTinselOnTheTree · 08/12/2019 14:20

OP, ditch this man, it will not end well for you.

NotStayingIn · 08/12/2019 16:53

Ditch him OP. In a healthy relationship, you should be able to be you. I don't know what the hell this is.

Savingforarainyday · 08/12/2019 17:20

Crikey...

My ex ( in addition to above) had his mum on a pedestal too. Well, some sort if love/hate. She was massively overbearing and he ( I think) developed his humour/ charm to keep her on side. It's his currency to get attention from women. Attention is his oxygen.

He too wasnt interested in sex, but pretended to be. I think if he could have put stilts on his hands/ dick so he could be even further away from me during ' the deed' he would have.
When he would get close to me, he sometimes would put his hand around my neck.

He constantly lied, would gaslight me, all while being incredibly charming to other women. When he wanted to get rid of me, he told me he loved the attention of women, and found it easy to lie and be secretive. He was furious with me that I was upset by his lies. He is indignant that I ' think he is a liar'. Even though he lied repeatedly.

I'm sure it all stems from his fucked up relationship with his mum.

Please don't try and 'fix' him. It has messed with my head. It took me a very long time to somehow sort out lies from truth.
Run.

ShadowOnTheSun · 08/12/2019 17:23

Ditch, OP. Like many others here pointed out, he has the Madonna-Whore complex.

I've dated a guy similar to this one briefly. Also charming, nice and a good guy (at a first glance). It was pretty much text book and very similar to what you describe. To this day I'm not sure what attracted him to me, as back then I was definitely no 'Madonna', more to the 'whore-y' side in my looks and behaviour, to be honest. However, he did worship me for a while.

He also had a low-ish sex drive (or so I thought), but I didn't see this as a big issue per se. But the sex was absolutely dull, exactly like yours: under duvet, in the dark, quiet missionary with a few dry pecks on a lips in between. At first, I thought he might be inexperienced and/or shy (he was 20-something then), so tried to show him/teach him some things. And soon learned that, in fact, he's far more experienced than me, but all sex different then described above is 'filthy' and 'for whores', yup.

One night soon after, I got fed up with quiet grunting and tried to go down on him. He recoiled in disgust, slapped my face and said: 'and I thought you're different, but you just a ho, just like all those others. But you're not hopeless, I think WE can work YOUR issues out together'. Needless to say, I didn't stick around to work out MY issues.

He went on and eventually married a friend of a friend (I did try to warn her, she didn't want to listen). Had two kids. And the absolute textbook shit started, just like the posters above said: he forbade her to work, bought suitable clothes for her, forbade her makeup, didn't let her wear heels, have male friends, etc, etc, etc. She was a timid shy girl and obeyed him.

Now the most ironic thing is that she eventually dumped him for...cheating. He didn't have a 'low sex drive', his sex drive was absolutely fine. He didn't' dislike sexy lingerie, stockings and blowjobs, not at all. He just couldn't do all these things with his wife, but it wasn't a problem to do it with other women. Regular women and actual sex workers, he had plenty of them. Well, after all, they were all just 'hoes' and not even people (in his mind), so this wasn't even cheating. He just used them and abused them, his St. Wife was the one he truly loved (again, in his mind).

Sorry for the length. Run for the hills, OP, just run, he's not a good'un.

Pinkbonbon · 08/12/2019 17:34

Run for the hills!
NPD alert!

He will withdraw the affection side in time and you'll be left feeling like it is something you have done wrong. He'll tell you he was upfront with you from the beginning about his view of sex so you will feel like you don't have the right to want more. He is managing down your expectations.

Telling you to be quiet during sex? Wtf. Controlling much?!

Vilifying women for wearing make up or being scantily clad? Controlling.

Run for the hills!
You have ran into a particularly overt narcissist. Red flags galore!

theemmadilemma · 08/12/2019 17:46

Why would you mold yourself into something you aren't for this clearly damaged man?

Don't bother with further analysis. Run.

Thelnebriati · 08/12/2019 17:59

How does a Madonna / whore complex work out in a relationship ultimately?
It doesn't.
Its a common complex among serial killers who tell themselves they are cleaning up the streets by killing prostitutes.

GreySheep · 08/12/2019 18:03

Holy fuck @goldencuttains the more you tell us the more I say RED FLAGS!!!! Run now or you’ll regret it.

goldencuttains · 08/12/2019 20:26

When I first posted I had
My Concerms and reservations but now I feel freaked out.I am
So involved in his family life and get on so well with his family but it was definitely a prerequisite to us being a couple. So if I didn't blend in with them it would never have worked. In a strange way, it feels that if I didn't accept them exactly as they are and exactly as he treats me, it would never have worked.I feel frustrated that they can see that they can see that it is all on his terms and they act as if this is ok for him
To exclude me in certain family events but not in others depending on whether he wants me there or not rather than it being a ' couples' occasion.he keeps saying that we need to go away and do our own thing on our own but it never happens despite him
Being the organiser .Our relationship is actually webbed to his family. This really is not normal either is it ?

OP posts:
AnniePankettonne · 08/12/2019 20:44

No .

rookiemere · 08/12/2019 20:49

You're maybe to young to remember the series Sex in the City but it does remind me very much of Charlottes relationship with Trey - spoiler it didn't end well.

I don't mean to diminish your predicament OP, but I really don't think that long term this is the relationship for you.

OxfordCat · 09/12/2019 09:51

Literally everyone on this thread is advising you the same thing OP. Time to actually look after yourself and do it.

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