AIBU to tell you all that the NHS is not up for sale and that Corbyn is lying?

[Adenosine]

Background:

• NHS currently purchases drugs produced by US pharmaceutical companies at a reduced rate compared to other healthcare providers including in the US due to two factors - economy of scale as NHS is a national provider and EU patent laws which allow for patents to run out quicker than in countries outside the EU so cheaper generic equivalents are available sooner.
• the patent aspect is already problematic due to a shift in focus from pharmaceutical companies driven by scientific advances which means new products are tailored and therefore cannot be purchased in bulk and open to the same discount as they are useful to fewer people so we buy less of them and don't get money off. Cf many many news articles about NHS not buying life saving drugs.

So, that's the background. Things are already uneasy with our purchasing model unable to allow us access to new drugs.

And then brexit comes along. And with it the possible change to patent protection which has been a key figure in our purchasing negotiations. So we will have to renegotiate in light of us leaving.

And all of this is just a small snippet of the negotiations we'll have to do. But we can't start them yet, because Brexit isn't decided. No one knows what the fuck's going to happen, so we start informal talks. They're not secret as such, just off the record because nothing can be set until we leave/not.

And the content of these talks is what Corbyn's got his hands on. Talks which for very good reasons raise the issue of medicine pricing for the reasons above but which include no agreement.

Literally nothing has been agreed.

The phrase "open market access" occurs right at the beginning of the talks. It describes the US opening gambit which is open market access which the other party [ie the UK] can set out exclusions from.

It's an opener. It isn't agreed. It's just a bargaining position. And it isn't about the NHS. It's about the general US position when they open negotiations with anyone. It's what countries do when they get into negotiating talks with each other.

And Corbyn has spun all of this around into being about evil Tories selling off our glorious NHS. When that isn't happening.

US companies will be up for buying.

I work in healthcare in the US. US companies will be and have been up for selling the NHS everything from medications to MRI machines. Some of the bigger hospital chains might be interested in doing facility management. But none would want to "buy the NHS" as it's a political entity that has to function on whatever money your politicians decide to give it. Fee for service - absolutely. Control and responsibility for delivery of services without negotiated and contractually binding prices - wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Trump literally said we were freeloaders and countries with socialised healthcare systems like ours were 'cheating' the Americans, causing them to pay more for drugs whilst we pay less.

Lowering drug prices for Americans was a key claim in Trump's campaign, and making the UK pay more via the new trade deal is obviously a primary route to make that happen.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/15/trump-threatens-use-us-trade-talks-force-nhs-pay-drugs/amp/

I guess you will believe whatever the papers tell you. And the papers are largely funded by Tory cash cows. Russians. Etc...

The BBC Reality Check says Corbyn is not lying. Read what I posted.

"I have wonky glasses. Why are you being so offensive to people with wonky glasses? Some people's ears fall off because of austerity. What kind of a monster are you?"

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you the OP who posted a recent thread about how shit the NHS was...?

Nobody believes it. The Corbynites just want to hurl abuse and the bojo fans jyst shrug it's just stupid background noise to most of us.

The NHS has been sold
www.careukhealthcare.com/
virgincare.co.uk/list-of-primary-care-services/

There you go @fruitandbarley

m.youtube.com/channel/UCMxZjyb-HZxBauSi_vx2ASg

As so often with outsourcing, contracts have been awarded to companies which offered unrealistically low prices and then couldn't fulfil what they'd promised.

2011:
Atos Healthcare pulls out of NHS contract
www.theguardian.com/society/2011/apr/12/nhs-privatisation-future-policy

A private company that won a 10-year contract to run a failing GP surgery in east London has pulled out after three years. Doctors are warning that it is a taste of things to come.

2013:
Serco Cornwall out-of-hours GP contract to end early
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-25362545

The company that provides out-of-hours GP care in Cornwall will end its contract 17 months early. Private contractor Serco was heavily criticised in July for failing to meet national standards, falsifying data and a "bullying culture".

2015:
Hinchingbrooke Hospital: Circle to withdraw from contract
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-30740956

A company which became the first private firm to manage an NHS hospital says it wants to "withdraw from its contract". Circle Holdings which operates Hinchingbrooke Hospital in Cambridgeshire, said its franchise is "no longer viable under current terms".
[...]
The health watchdog announced on Friday it rated Hinchingbrooke "inadequate", highlighting particular concerns over accident and emergency and medical care.

Boris is an out and out liar. It has been shown time and time again.

Corbyn isn't perfect, but he's a whole fuckload better than BoJo when it comes to integrity.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you the OP who posted a recent thread about how shit the NHS was...?

Well spotted.

PFI!!!!!!

Yes I am that OP and part of my frustration about this story is that it has prompted all kinds of shitwits to come out of the woodwork talking about how great the NHS is and it saves us all when actually a) it isn't great and b) the story isn't true.

Ok Tory hq. Trump has sad the nhs would be ‘on the table’ in a previous press conference. They’ve had, what, 6 meetings about a possible US trade deal? If if were a total no go it would have been ‘taken off the table’ at the 1st meeting. Trump knows we will be desperate for a trade deal after Brexit. The NHS is one of the biggest markets for drugs in the world. He’ll tell us how high and we’ll have to jump.

Do you work in the nhs?

wonky glasses face

Aren't you a charmer?

MissConductUS, it's being sold as individual services, just as you're describing.

Fee for service - absolutely.
Yes, that's how it's being sold.

Control and responsibility for delivery of services without negotiated and contractually binding prices - wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
Obviously, which is why companies are signing contracts to deliver specific services, with specific service-level-agreements, for specific prices.

Oh do fuck off you total fucking idiot.

So how exactly have Virgin Care won contracts to deliver GP services? You know, those GP services that they are providing right now? Replacing NHS GP care? I'll wait.

The existence of the NHS is antithetical to the principles of the Tory party.

They would have privatised it by now, like they already have with all our other services and utilities, if the NHS wasn't so popular. You can't campaign on privatising the NHS and expect to win a majority.

They will underfund it and say that it's failing. People like the OP will call the NHS shit. They will sabotage it and try to turn the public off the idea of social healthcare.

Then, when they have successfully undermined it, they will further privatise as soon as they get the opportunity.

A hard brexit will give them as good an excuse as any.

It's very reassuring to see the majority of people on here are intelligent enough to not have the wool pulled over their eyes.

The NHS is not only 'up for sale' it's already being sold. Teams that used work until the NHS have been sold out to private companies years ago. Where have you been? It's just a matter of time before the whole of the NHS is sold out, everyone is expected to take out insurance and the poor people suffer the most.

Oh and this. A voluntary service provided by people just trying to do good for free to this, replaced by a £14 million contract awarded to a private company.

Voluntary Blood Delivery Bikers

I worked in the nhs when Blair got in, the sense of optimism are tory underfunding was palpable. It made a tremendous difference we could do stuff.
I still work with the NHS and it's been very tough. Its stretched to breaking point and people work incredibly hard. It's suffered massively from the Tories tinkering with it and spending money changing deckchairs but doing nothing that actually makes any difference. The NHS needs funding properly and needs to stop being a political football. What it really doesn't need is another Tory government (or Brexit for that matter).