AIBU to tell you all that the NHS is not up for sale and that Corbyn is lying?

[Adenosine]

Background:

• NHS currently purchases drugs produced by US pharmaceutical companies at a reduced rate compared to other healthcare providers including in the US due to two factors - economy of scale as NHS is a national provider and EU patent laws which allow for patents to run out quicker than in countries outside the EU so cheaper generic equivalents are available sooner.
• the patent aspect is already problematic due to a shift in focus from pharmaceutical companies driven by scientific advances which means new products are tailored and therefore cannot be purchased in bulk and open to the same discount as they are useful to fewer people so we buy less of them and don't get money off. Cf many many news articles about NHS not buying life saving drugs.

So, that's the background. Things are already uneasy with our purchasing model unable to allow us access to new drugs.

And then brexit comes along. And with it the possible change to patent protection which has been a key figure in our purchasing negotiations. So we will have to renegotiate in light of us leaving.

And all of this is just a small snippet of the negotiations we'll have to do. But we can't start them yet, because Brexit isn't decided. No one knows what the fuck's going to happen, so we start informal talks. They're not secret as such, just off the record because nothing can be set until we leave/not.

And the content of these talks is what Corbyn's got his hands on. Talks which for very good reasons raise the issue of medicine pricing for the reasons above but which include no agreement.

Literally nothing has been agreed.

The phrase "open market access" occurs right at the beginning of the talks. It describes the US opening gambit which is open market access which the other party [ie the UK] can set out exclusions from.

It's an opener. It isn't agreed. It's just a bargaining position. And it isn't about the NHS. It's about the general US position when they open negotiations with anyone. It's what countries do when they get into negotiating talks with each other.

And Corbyn has spun all of this around into being about evil Tories selling off our glorious NHS. When that isn't happening.

and I am sick of seeing his wonky glasses face on my telly

Did you call people “speccy four-eyes” at school too? This is about as credible.

Hands up who trusts Boris Johnson.

Anyone?

Given his record on lying, expecting us to believe that this time he’s really telling the truth is a bit of a stretch.

Remember what Andrew Neil said, the border in the Irish Sea was as important to the DUP as the NHS is to us, and he lied to them about that.

Adenosine

So you are doing your duty of calling out bullshit.

How many threads have you started about the hundreds of lies Johnson has/is spinning.

Don't us, Joe puplic need your help with them too?

Oh of course nobody with a brain would trust Johnson. Really? I'm just saying I don't trust Corbyn either and I'm fucked off that this story has been allowed to run as long as it has.

How much do you actually know about drug pricing?

You are not really pulling 'the concerned citizen' off very well.

Revealing the intent back in 2011:

David Cameron's adviser says health reform is a chance to make big profits
www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/may/14/david-cameron-adviser-health-reform

A senior adviser to David Cameron says the NHS could be improved by charging patients and will be transformed into a "state insurance provider, not a state deliverer" of care.
[...]
Mark Britnell, who was appointed to a "kitchen cabinet" advising the prime minister on reforming the NHS, told a conference of executives from the private sector that future reforms would show "no mercy" to the NHS and offer a "big opportunity" to the for-profit sector.
[...]
Britnell, a former director of commissioning for the NHS, who is now head of health at the accountancy giant KPMG, was invited to join a group of senior health policy experts, described by the respected Health Service Journal as a "kitchen cabinet", in Downing Street earlier this month. The group, which includes former NHS executives and the former Department of Health permanent secretary Lord Crisp, was assembled by Cameron's new special adviser on health, Paul Bate.

In unguarded comments at a conference in New York organised by the private equity company Apax, Britnell claimed that the next two years in the UK would provide a "big opportunity" for the for-profit sector, and that the NHS would ultimately end up as a financier of care similar to an insurance company rather than a provider of hospitals and staff.

According to a glossy brochure summarising the conference held last October, Britnell told his audience: "GPs will have to aggregate purchasing power and there will be a big opportunity for those companies that can facilitate this process … In future, the NHS will be a state insurance provider, not a state deliverer." He added: "The NHS will be shown no mercy and the best time to take advantage of this will be in the next couple of years."

I wasn't aware I was a public service but off the top of my head, Johnson's lies: brexit spending to go to NHS funding, prorogation of parliament necessary and constitutionally sound, stop and search gets results, climate change isn't an issue, I don't know how many kids I've got ... Obviously all lies and he's a tosser.

Oh of course nobody with a brain would trust Johnson.

So why are you trusting him on this?

Have any of you actually bothered to read the document? The actual 451 page document.

My glasses look wonky sometimes, that's because my ears aren't level. What a very childish statement you made.

So why are you trusting him on this?

I'm not trusting any of them. But what Corbyn is saying is incorrect. And I'm bored of hearing about it.

ODFO Dominic

But you don't care if it is for sale or not do you Adenosine? You think the NHS should be privatised so don't pretend it's about calling out the truth.

Is that you Donald Trump, with your nasty name calling.

@StormBaby I've downloaded the document and skipped to the relevant parts which is how I've found that the quote Corbyn is using comes from the first round laying cards out talk rather than the later mentions of drug pricing etc.

OP,
No, no, no. Negotiations are allowable before Brexit, just no signed agreements. So the documents Corbyn acquired are the current unsigned provisional agreements with the US.
The U.K. has 20 trade agreements negotiated and ready to rolled over (be signed) on Brexit day.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-47213842

Rubbish. More and more parts of the NHS will be privatised when Boris gets in. And the US will be able to get in this way.

To try to convince us of anything else is a disgrace.

I await your proof @ssd.

I dont know how to do a link on here but I urge anyone that's not seen it to watch "The Great NHS Heist" (the pre election free play one on you tube).
We should all be very very concerned.
Oh and yes, YABU.

The Torries have privatised basically every other public service.

But yeah, of course they'd never dream of further privatising the NHS as part of a trade deal...

OP are you drunk?

I hate when Tory bots try and pretend to be concerned citizens. At least be bloody honest at about your agenda.

@TheWernethWife are you leader of the labour party? Going on national television with wonky glasses and made up stories? If not, what I say is not directed at you.

The BBC article link I posted even mentions the NHS pharmaceutical deal you mention as written and already signed because it’s not a free trade deal:
Mutual recognition agreements
“The UK has also signed deals with the United States, Australia and New Zealand, but these are "mutual recognition agreements" and not free trade agreements.
The Australia and New Zealand deal replicates all aspects of the current EU agreements when it comes to recognising product standards, such as the labelling and certifying of wine.
The US agreement will, according to the Department for International Trade, particularly benefit the pharmaceutical sector which accounts for around £7.7bn of UK exports to the US - about 18% of the total.”