Utterly furious with friend - child sickness bug

[Dontpaintitgrey]

I posted on here previously about this bad got a mixed response but we have had another incidence. I need to know what to do!

Good Mum friend and my DC go to same childminder. Back in Oct I went to do drop off and C minder tells me ‘oh no friend’s DC this morn, they have a sickness bug, I had to say I’m flexible on coughs and colds not sickness’ well of course. Messages friend to say hope DC feeling better soon and she gave me a run down of bug and told me she was still retching up but nothings in tummy so this was just bile, loose nappies but didn’t know if that was teething (to be fair my DC has lots of loose nappies generally too due to teething).

Didn’t expect to see her that week but lo and behold she was there at drop off the following day. I must have looked suprised so friend said to me of no C minder said I could bring her as she hadn’t been sick since the early early hours of the previous night. Ermmm well that’s not what you told me she was still being sick at 9:30am apparently. So barely 24hrs and she was back in.

Lo and behold my DC was sick the following day with a temp and lo and behold I came down the following day, pretty convinced it was Noro V as I had the shivers and ached all over like with flu. DC recovered pretty quickly but I was vomiting and bum ill for well over 48 hrs, and knocked for 6 for 7 days. I’ve only just started a new job as well.

We decided to say something to the C minder, chickened our abs did it via txt, but in a roundabout way told her that Friend poss stretched the truth and would it be better to stick to the 48hr rule as we’d been so ill and it was more difficult for us to take time off - I’ve just started a new job and DH is self employed. I know where not allowed to make assumptions about other people’s circumstances on here. But friend’s DP is a salaried employee at the family firm - he can well take a few days of to look after his sick child!!!!!!! Anyway C minder said she would ‘keep all this in mind’ we couldn’t decided whether that was a brush off or not.

Anyway fast forward to this week I met friend for a wander round the Xmas markets last night and she tells me what a rough wk they’ve had as DC was being sick again on Sun night and early Mon morning, had a bit of a raised temp but they called doctors triage and they said it was teething but then our c minder had called her on Weds morning to ask of this was a normal nappy for her (c minder obviously didn’t think it was normal) as it looked like tail end of a tummy bug!!!!!! Yeah no shit! Excuse the pun!

Lo and behold my DC has been sick in the night and again this morning. Raised temp. And before anyone says he could have picked it up anywhere he’s not been anywhere but home, the car and the childminders since last Sat so given the incubation period is 48 hrs I think we know where he got it from!!!!

I am so, so pissed off! I mean does my friend really not see it’s a bug (supposed being told that by triage didn’t help) but why would you rung triage about a tummy bug and slightly raised temp and otherwise ok child. Is she really that daft!! She was in complete denial it was a bug last time - stood talking to me saying ‘oh just one of those things, I don’t think it’s a bug’.

What do I say to the childminder to get her be tougher on this?

Schools around here have had to close for several days to do a deep clean - or when they just ran out of staff! because of D&V.

I'm not disputing that it happened pancakes but I've never heard of anything like this. Not even close. Surely we're not a hardier lot over here in Ireland?

I can get worked up about it.

Every time my twins have vomited - even the one who has a condition that can cause vomiting - we keep them off for 48 hours.

If everyone actually did this, we’d all have far fewer bugs and everyone would need less time off and have sick kids less often.

When DT2 gets a sickness bug it can mean serious illness for him. Yesterday after being sick just once the day previously, he woke up with a blood sugar level of 2.4. Had he slept another hour it would have been too low to correct and we would have been in an ambulance.

So with respect, bugs may just be bugs to you, but to some they’re much more serious.

Both twins have been off the last few days and haven’t been sick since the early hours of yesterday morning. I could totally have sent them today, no one would know and I could definitely do with the rest! Still kept them home today.

I'm not disputing that it happened pancakes but I've never heard of anything like this. Not even close. Surely we're not a hardier lot over here in Ireland?

I can't tell you - I am South East and the last "big closure" during term time was last December...

As a childminder myself you would not believe how many children are sent in clearly unwell and the truth is often bent to suit the parents needs regardless of how it impacts not only the other children in the setting but also the childminder and her own family. It's doubtful that the childminder is reluctant to stick to her policies as most childminder's still get paid if a child is off sick.
Your friend is selfish and you should call her out on it instead of writing FB status's which are clearly directed at her.

@RagamuffinAndFidget it is there for a reason tho and protects kiddies like yours (I have an old colleague whose youngest had a liver transplant and had to give up work as she could never trust a childcare setting, school’s a constant source of anxiety for her)

The reason its 48 hrs is that even if you feel well or have stopped with main symptoms - I.e D&V, with Noro and other stomach bugs (bacterial or viral) the germs can still be alive and kicking in your intestine for around 48 hrs after. So you’re not being sick so can’t spread them that way fine, but you may still need to do a poo in that time - the germs would still be passed out that way. Obviously most (I mean there are dirty buggers who don’t) adults will wash there hands properly after wiping but kids don’t then they touch everything!! And if there still in nappies you’ve got the risk of whoever’s changing them spreading it before they can wash their hands. It can also be present in the mouth in small amounts, not a worry for adults unless you’re snogging someone but obviously toddlers and babies lick/chew everything!

She is really selfish and of course she has a choice, particularly given her DH's employment situation. Much more choice than most families with two parents working.

She doesn't sound too lovely to have done this twice. The story about the doctor's triage telling her it was teething sounds like nonsense and she has probably lied to the childminder too.

@EarringsandLipstick I doubt it, there are a load of schools in West Yorkshire closed because of it and lo and behold, they're a hardy bunch

Yes bugs can incubated for weeks let along longer than the 48h.
I think the 48h rule is pretty rubbish
Because
Once dc have stopped 90% of the time for 24h they are not going to d&v again
But twice now dc have been ill again and it was after the 48h - this time it was 10days later.

• you are infectioous beforehand
• those germs are on all the toys
• it is not necessarily norovirus, it could by a uti/ear infection/teething/bad cough

-many bugs that cause V in some kids are a cough and cold to others so - the cough and cold kids are still at school speeading it anyway.. -the worst for contagion is being there for the d&v as it is in the air. So the people who could/should feel bad is if your kid is sick at school or nursery in the room as everyone is exposed and i seriously doubt they deep clean every toy straight away.

• many of these bugs adults are immune to - and many other kids

Ive only caught 1-2 in 7 years as has dp, and in a house with 10 people (4 kids) when 1 was sick only 1 other caught it.

I think if the bug is very virulent and actually norovirus then yes try to protect everyone but it's mainly probably not.
And when working i would only usually have the rest of the day off.
And yes some kids do get d or V with teeth. Both of mine did severely.

I do think it unlikely for a 111 type service to say that though as the party line is teething does not.
And im sure it's more likely for a sibling to infect the school as they could V at any time

www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/infections-and-poisoning/norovirus

Thing is I don’t think she’s manipulative.

Just had a chat with DH about what to say, if anything to the C Minder and to friend, and his words not mine re friend were ‘they’re a lovely couple, but she’s thick as mince, she probably doesn’t know being sick equates to a stomach bug’

Your clever DH being sick doesn't equate to that at all.

@christmassymcchristmas we get it you’re part of the problem and are one of those who sends their kids in ill. Stop trying to justify it here.

Ok op but do you know and apply the rules for swimming after illness?
Would you avoid going anywhere with dc who was fine in the 48? Food shopping or if it was a non cminder day the library/zoo a party etc. Because people do it. They take kids to the park with CP and library in tge 48h off school from d&v.
They have to take dc out to get other dc to school...

It is possible the woman is basing it on being if it were norovirus her whole family might get it (not necessarily) so assumes it's something just kids get.
Anyway apparently hfm is 'extremely contagious' and is before and for 7-10 days after then still contagious for a month. And this is via cough/sneezes and then poop. Yet dc can go into school/nursery if they feel ok.

If a child had reflux they are more likely to be sick when teething.

It's all a bit like cp - we want all kids to get it, but dont spread it to kids or adults or immunocompromised or pregnant. In that really you do want kids to get this when they are younger or they will be off during gcses (i do get that apparently you are only immune to norovirus for 6m though)

It’s difficult to decipher here how much of this the childminder was aware of. It sounds like your friend isn’t telling her the truth- in which case her being stricter with policies etc will make no difference.
I think I’d have a chat with the childminder. Ask her exactly what her sickness policy is, and what the exclusion periods are. She would have to justify why her exclusion periods don’t reflect public health England’s or NHS’ guidelines, so I’d imagine they’ll be similar. If so, I’d ask her that she be really strict on sticking to them.
I’m a childminder. I know it isn’t an easy conversation to have, and she’s within her rights to turn around and say that she only excludes for 24 hours and that is that. But atleast then you know where you stand.

My Dr and Nurse friend both say the same about Noro, by the time you know you have it you’ve already spread it around. Chances are kids will have caught it from a sick child the day before they wake up with D&V in the night. The 48 hour thing is total nonsense too and only in place to make people feel better. It’s actually at least 7 days you want to steer clear of someone who has had it- but parents certainly wouldn’t adhere to that.

I think if you put your DC in nursery/childminder you’re taking your chances. Between birth and 4/5 their immune systems are crap- they will catch everything 😂

The 48 hour thing is total nonsense too and only in place to make people feel better.

that's not what my GP says, so who wins?
That's not what my local hospitals say either btw.

It completely baffles me why people make up all these ridiculous reasons and excuses why their child is being sick, rather than admit it's a stomach bug and they need to stay home for a couple of days. I've heard all sorts of nonsense - they are something from the pound bakery, they are some magic stars in the car, she was having a tantrum. Lo and behold me and or my kids have been ill within 24/48 hours of being in contact with said excuse maker.

I am a childminder and I'm super paranoid about tummy bugs but I also adopt a common sense approach. This would depend on someone being honest with me though. I wouldn't be giving someone a second chance if they'd lied to me tho so if u don't find the guts to have it out with your friend I would defo tell the cm.

And no being sick doesn't always equate to a tummy bug (though it does sound like it in this case to be fair). I had one child who would vomit when teething and my own children vomit if their temp spikes. My eldest vomits sometimes when she's due her period.

Plus there's no law about 48 hours either. Most places go by 24. With my common sense approach tho I would be expecting over 24 hours vomit free unless there was a particularly nasty bug doing the rounds and the child wasn't particularly poorly

Just a point, when my eldest son was a baby, the GP told me "The only thing children get from teething is teeth" Children are teething for about 2 years, in which time they are bound to get rashes, colds, diarrhoea, sickness, etc etc. I don't believe a health professional would tell her it was probably just teething.

Of course I do @Awkward1 I hate taking them swimming anyway but I know it’s two weeks - no big loss, I’m sure they’d get over it, DC has only had a sickness bug twice now. Your comment really has no bearing on this discussion.

@Enwi and @Looneytune253 but why not just follow NHS guidelines which are 48hrs. I’d assumed - maybe wrongly that most settings still charged. So what’s the reason for letting them back earlier, just trying to understand that’s all.

I’m going to say something to C moved but will come at it with giving her the benefit of the doubt that as many of you have said she more than likely didn’t have the full facts last time and not at all this time. I’ll dig out her policy when I get back as well.

I have said something to friend. Her response, yeah we thought it was probably more than teeth! Lord give me strength 🤦🏼‍♀️

@Dontpaintitgrey what?! I actually don't send them in for 2 days after. The eldest is only ever sick once mind.

Being sick does not equate to a stomach bug though. It's not that simple. I'll use that though next time I'm sick from a hangover

100% my kids had loose bums from teething.
Both of them they were both bf so on looser end anyway.
Teething is also supposed to not hurt...

Its a bit of a nightmare but you don't really know people's circumstances, I've been guilty of sending my kids to school once or twice knowing they were feeling off to get a phonecall later on. I'm a single parent and sometimes the I feel sick is just I fancy staying in bed, sometimes I got it wrong. I am not using 'bum ill' best description for the runs 🙈