To think that only posh people say Father Christmas?!

[charliesp]

And everyone else says Santa?

I say Santa but my posh DH and all his family and posh friends say Father Christmas.

Anyone else noticed this? Or AIBU?

S.wales say father Christmas. Or Sion Corn. Santa has been relatively new in usage around these parts.

Its always been Santa or Santy here in the north east, nothing to do with American influence.

I’m working class and he’s always been Father Christmas, FC, or “the big guy”.

However I’ve long suspected that I was separated from my true aristocratic family at birth as I have needs far greater than I can afford. This is more evidence of that.

It was always father Christmas in our house, and I grew up in a poor household. Maybe it's a generational thing, isn't Santa an American term that came over in the last twenty years?

isn't Santa an American term that came over in the last twenty years?

You're fucking kidding me. Why can't people rtft. 700 posts, why not have a glance to check you're not repeating 650 others.

I was always told Father Christmas is more British and Santa is American so nothing to do with being posh here.

Father Christmas all the way here - I've always considered it to be the opposite actually, that using Santa was posh or in an American film. I'm definitely not posh.

I'm surprised to learn its Santa in Scotland and Ireland but then I've never been to either country at Christmas. You learn something new every day!

The history of Father Christmas and Santa Claus is quite interesting. The two probably have common origins in the ancient Yule customs and both may have been in part inspired by Wotan the Norse god. In England the character came to be known as Father Christmas and throughout history he appears as the personification of the Christmas spirit of feasting, hospitality and goodwill. Although his appearance and name varied he eventually evolved into Father Christmas and began to look more like he does today. Royalists seeking to revive the old Christmas traditions featured him in their pamphlets after overturning the Puritan ban on Christmas. He is found as a character in the ancient Mummers plays that still continue in some areas, welcoming in the Christmas feast. So for most of this time he was not a religious figure but a link to the old custom of midwinter feasts. He was not associated with gift giving or children at this time.

It was during the Victorian times that he began to be a bringer of gifts and at this time Christmas became more of a family time and a time to give gifts to children.

In America at the same period Santa Claus who probably shared the same origins as Father Christmas but was based on the Dutch and Northern European traditions and on St Nicholas with his link to caring for children was made very popular by poems and cartoons that also became popular in Britian. It was at this time the two characters began to merge (maybe recognising their common origins) and the traditions of leaving a stocking of gifts became very popular. The look of the two characters became more standard in pictures and the name became interchangeable or it was seen as the same man with a different name.

So Santa Claus is American but it was much longer ago that he became popular here than people may be aware. It was the American poems that popularised his role as a bringer of gifts to children, rather than the old English character who was more simply a personification of the Christmas spirit. I think it's interesting that he has always been a character played by a person in pageants and plays so the grotto Santas we see today are part of a longer tradition than we might think.

Fakeflowers, the history of FC/Santa is interesting but no-one wants to listen on here, it is all arguing with people on the internets.

Could MN maybe have a stickie every Christmas saying 'SANTA IS NOT F-ing AMERICAN'?

I don't care what people call him (Santa here, Scottish), but the 'Santa is American' mantra on repeat every bloody year is tiresome. Yes, for some in England, the use of Santa instead of FC comes down to the influence of American culture, but it's not rocket science to have a bit of awareness about regional variations throughout the UK.

You're fucking kidding me. Why can't people rtft. 700 posts, why not have a glance to check you're not repeating 650 others.

Don’t even have to read the full thread, just the first 2-3 pages. Some people are just lazy or can’t help themselves when it comes to being snobby about the States and complaining about Americanisms which were again brought over by EUROPEAN immigrants.

Thank you Fakeflowers. That’s very interesting.

So broadly:

Father Christmas - anglo-saxon, most of England.

Santa Claus - northern European tradition, celtic, Scotland, Northumbria, Ireland, pockets elsewhere in UK. Makes a lot of sense if you know anything about the early people who lived here in hte middle ages.

Or if you're an ignorant twat, you can just keep banging on about Santa being American.

South Africans do and I'm not posh. Santa is American IMO.

Ha my sister in law always says Father Christmas and she wishes she was posh

Father Christmas is not posh. It is English.

Gloucestershire, very working class, always been Father Christmas. Although occasionally my dad says Santy because his dad was Irish.

It should be compulsory for all Mumsnet users to read a list of common errors to be avoided. This would include:

Halloween is not American
Santa is not American
England is not the entire U.K.
London is not the entirety of England
Ireland and Northern Ireland are not the same country
People in the U.K. do not all speak with the same accent or dialect and yours is not more correct than theirs.
Mom is not American, people in parts of the U.K. use it too
Mummy is not infantile, adults use it in parts of the U.K.
Etc

Then people stating threads based on these misconceptions could be forced to reread the list and we could all be spared these recurring threads.

Gloucestershire, very working class

Surely not, isn't Gloucestershire all regency housing, beautiful countryside and horse riding trials?

rhubarb Ha!

It's Father Christmas dear! 🙄

@Chemenger amen to that. Especially England not being the entire UK. English people call him Father Christmas therefore it must be a thing. No it is an English thing .

*must be a UK thing

I was always told Father Christmas is more British and Santa is America

That doesn’t mean it’s true.

The latest PISA results suggest that something like 10% of 15 year olds can tell the difference between fact and opinion. Reading this thread, suggests that the problem is not isolated to school kids.