Children of working mothers are more likely to mug you

[chomalungma]

I know. It was 13 years ago. It's probably out of context. Sometimes you say things that rattle a few cages.

But it all builds a picture of our current Prime Minister, Boris Johnson.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/04/boris-johnson-claimed-children-of-working-mothers-more-likely-to-mug-you

"“In the last 30 years an ever-growing proportion of British women have been ‘incentivised’ or socially gestapoed into the workplace, on what seems to me to be the dubious assumption that the harder a woman works the happier she will be, when I am not sure that is true of women or anyone else,” he wrote.

In the book, published before he became mayor of London, Johnson said an increasing number of female graduates tended to pair up with male graduates – a process known by economists as “assortative mating” – and that they then pool their advantages.

“The result is that in families on lower incomes the women have absolutely no choice but to work, often with adverse consequences for family life and society as a whole – in that unloved and undisciplined children are more likely to become hoodies, Neets [not in education, employment or training] and mug you on the street corner."

AIBU to think that his articles from the past reveal much about his views on women, Muslims, LGBT people....

Wow, he hates women doesn't he?

I can’t believe he described the children of working mothers as unloved and undisciplined. He’s a vile piece of sh*t and I’m absolutely horrified to have him as a prime minister. Working abroad at the moment and I’m ashamed but not surprised to see that England is the laughing stock of the world right now.

Agree Eleanor (love the name btw).
I bet Shawn would vote Tory!

I cannot imagine anything more dull than being a SAHM. Please don't get me wrong if you choose to be a SAHM, that's great if it suits your personality
Yes, it's clear you pity us simple SAHMs who are obviously easily fulfilled and just not as interesting or dynamic as you. You do realise that the SAHM role doesn't come with a standard job description? I think you lack insight and imagination if you really think that being a SAHM is universally "dull".

But why should girls attend high school / college / uni, if all women needed for is child rearing, how depressing
This is such a bizarre argument and is predicated on the idea that being a SAHP is a permanent state of being. Lots of women will work prior to being a SAHM and after being a SAHM.

Do you think we should choose not to educate any woman (or man) that thinks they might spend any time away from the workplace to focus on raising their children? Surely to be fair we should also stop educating anyone that thinks that they might want to work PT once the children arrive. After all someone working PT for 20 years could work less hours than someone who is a SAHM for 5 years and then returns back to work FT. What about those people likely to have time away from work to care for elderly relatives or those that retire early? If they're not absolutely maxing out the career potential afforded to them from having an education then are they worthy of that education at all?

The serious point I'm trying to make is that women that choose to take a step back from work for a period of time to focus on raising their children are currently disproportionately penalised when it comes to their career. They're written off as being less ambitious or capable (because being a SAHM is just SO mindless, dull, easy....) and it is seen as some kind of black mark on their CV. Your post reflect this way of thinking and how many people can't accept that it's possible to be a SAHM and a professional career woman at different points in your life.

I cannot imagine anything more dull than being a SAHM. Please don't get me wrong if you choose to be a SAHM, that's great if it suits your personality

My god. I've never read such an insulting, condescending comment.
I've had a career, a very exotic, exciting one with world travel, danger etc.
Now I'm a SAHP. I can assure you that I am neither bored nor boring.

I agree with him. They should launch a poster campaign to get men into the kitchen. It’s a shame to waste women’s talent and let’s face it, men are better cooks.

I don't think there is "too much pressure on women to work". Women have fought for the right to be able to work and for the chance to support themselves and to be financially independent. The right to be paid equally was only established in the 1970s, you couldn't even get a mortgage or HP without the agreement of your husband then.

What there is, is "too much pressure on people in work". There is too little regard for family life, whether your family is two adults and two children, or one person and their cat.

And as for ambition, it depends what you consider to be ambitious. I've always been ambitious to do life well, not to "get to the top" in a career.

Gosh so as a nanny that’s all the children I’ve met in the last 20 years gonna mug me lol

The serious point I'm trying to make is that women that choose to take a step back from work for a period of time to focus on raising their children are currently disproportionately penalised when it comes to their career

How can you prevent this though? Less children are being born & most mothers are staying in work either ft or pt, technology is changing rapidly etc. I think it's incredibly hard these days to get back into work after a long break unless you have specific skills. The workplace is much more competitive these days.

I would be less annoyed if this was phrased ‘children of absent fathers...’

But of course our standard for fathers is so low that all being a good father takes is being around.

But why should girls attend high school / college / uni, if all women needed for is child rearing, how depressing!

That's ok if you're too young right now to understand (I assume you're very young due to your "OMG!" usage) the reasons why some choose to stay at home. Your condescending nature however is something you need to work on.

Fgs just realised i thought i was on the single mother thread

The serious point I'm trying to make is that women that choose to take a step back from work for a period of time to focus on raising their children are currently disproportionately penalised when it comes to their career

Not everyone has a "career". Some people just work what they can to earn money.

But why should girls attend high school / college / uni, if all women needed for is child rearing

Well that used to be the case, didn't it? We were just there to be incubators and the boys were the ones who were educated. Girls were taught to read and write and sew and look pretty.

There is probably some truth in it, another teenager shot in London today.

Boris is an idiot, however he is better than terrorists supporting Corbyn, in fact Our dog could do better than the labour marxists

Job + house/kids is more tiring than just house/kids

It's not that simple at all. If I have a husband who works FT but pulls his weight at home, and get the kids to share in some chores, I won't be as tired as if neither of them ever contribute. And in fact if I don't work FT or at all outside the home, they'll be even more lazy and leave everything to me.

And if I work I may be able to afford help - cleaner, window cleaner, whatever.

There is probably some truth in it, another teenager shot in London today

How is this relevant to whether women go out to work or not?

"How many posts do we see on these boards from women who are exhausted from working full time and trying to run the house whilst their husband works and does no household chores or childcare."

Imagine writing this sentence and thinking the problem lies with the woman

If we are looking at the reasons for why some young people turn to crime then I say those who take drugs are most to blame.

I am sure there are children from working parents who turn into thugs, and I am sure there are similar from children with SAHPs.

Some people think that children of glamorous mums are likely to be overweight because the mum spends all their time on themselves.

Some people think children of wealthier families are unempathetic and those from less wealthy, unambitious.

Lazy generalisations all.

Job + house/kids is more tiring than just house/kids

But it really shouldn't be. Jobs should accommodate for house/kids, it shouldn't be an either or choice. If employers were more accommodating both parents could juggle it all, but they've gotten so used to the idea of one parent staying home, as became the norm in the 50's, that they think they can overwork one parent, and the other parent will pick up the "life" slack. That's unsustainable and unfair to both parents and children.

What nonsense. Lets be honest, its boys, not girls who are a problem and its not boys who's mothers work, it's boys who's fathers aren't around, or are feckless examples and/or growing up in poverty.

None of these apply to me or any of the working mothers I know. Few of the SAHM households either, but for the few boys I know who have or are going off the rails they are exclusively being bought up by single mothers (who have been abandoned by arsehole men) who either dont work or are on a very low income.

More women working a negative thing for society?

Certainly in my field we know from research that women doctors achieve better outcomes. It would certainly not have been better for society for all of us to stay home. The women I know working as nurses and scientists are also making a massive contribution to society.

The fantasy of SAHMs being the norm in the halcyon past is of course total bollocks. The entire concept is only a couple of hundred years old and relates to the creation of a middle class.

Meanwhile working class women such as my family have always, always worked.

Boris doesn’t really mean he thinks women should be at home for the sake of children, he means we should be at home for his sake. Less competition at work and more nicely ironed shirts for him. Win win.

As a woman in my 50s I’m bloody thankful I’ve had a successful working life as well as raising three children, along with my dh who - shock horror! - is equally capable at parenting (and cooking, sticking a wash on, ordering an online shop....)

Nothing against SAHP at all - I’m sure I would have found plenty to do and not get bored (there are some mean comments on that on here) But ultimately it’s people we’re talking about. Being a mum or dad doesn’t define your whole identity. There is no reason why being a woman means you can’t have a successful work life and there’s no reason why being a man means you can’t do child related and domestic related stuff successfully.

We’ve come a long way since women had many opportunities denied to them - and equally since men had expectations that it was their duty to just earn and that everything home related was the territory of the wife.

Of course the financial side is good too.... having lived through the era of sky high childcare costs (no tax credits or free hours when ours were little, so childcare was the equivalent of one income for years!) it’s great to come out the other side and realise I can afford to retire early in a year or so if I choose.

But I believe the benefits go way beyond money... for me it’s about having a balanced life where neither of us, dh or me, have had to ‘pick a side’ (earning or caring) but can each experience both.

Boris just talks a crock of shite

I agree with what Boris is trying to say here although I cannot stand the man. One of the unintended consequences of the liberation of women is that a large number of households have two salaries coming in and as soon as this started to happen, the average cost of housing started to reflect this. Housing is always supply and demand and the people who can pay more are the ones who will get the house. I think life has now just become an endless treadmill for families who live in a total state of exhaustion. I do not think the onus should always be on the mother to stay home but to have a parent around for little ones and then school drop off and pick up/ homework/ playdates etc has to benefit kids. DH and I have always shared this responsibility through a mixture of flexible working requests and sometimes just one of us working. We need to pressurise employers to be more flexible and we need to remove the expectation that it is always the mother doing the childcare.
Couples should discuss these things before having children and ask about flexible working before you buy into a company.