Male Midwife Behaviour- Was it normal?

[CloudyVanilla]

I've been thinking about this since the birth of my son 2 years ago and it's been playing on my mind more and more as I am 33 weeks pregnant again.

I just wanted to check if a couple of things he did were normal or if I am being prejudice or precious to find them uncomfortable? I was reading the male gyno thread and it make me realise I have no prejudice against men in those jobs and have seen several male consultants, so maybe there is something in my experience that warrants feeling uncomfortable?

To keep it as brief as possible, there are 2 main things he did which made me feel uncomfortable. The first was shortly after birth after everyone else had gone, he checked me to see if I needed stitches and said well done none are needed. Fine. He then said he was going to check me for grazes, but instead of doing it visually which I really thought was what happened last time, he ran over the entirety of my inner labia with his fingers. I have tried to google but cant see that this is standard? I also really didn't think it happened with my first birth, but then with my first labour I was more out of it by the time DD was born.

The second thing was, he kissed me on the face completely uninvited when no one else was in the room (my partner was searching for a vending machine as I had been induced and he had been at my side for 48 hours at this point).

I don't know if I'm completely overreacting to these things but I just felt no one else involved in my care during pregnancy or birth has felt the need to kiss me. The fact that he waited til no one including my partner was around also added an extra layer of weirdness for me.

My partner thinks if I am uncomfortable I should raise it with my midwife but I dont want to cause somebody grief if it is just their style of working or whatever. I do think I about it more and more the closer I get to giving birth again though!

Please tell me honestly, does it sound like I am overreacting (particularly to the graze checking which could be totally normal?) Or would this have also made you uncomfortable?

A medical practitioner shouldn't be kissing anyone.

I'd be uncomfortable if anyone in a medical role kissed me

Kissing is inappropriate.

I think I would be uncomfortable with that too. When my stitches were being checked they didn't even touch me never mind putting their fingers all over me.

Could you ask to speak to PALS or the head midwife to go through your notes? Or just speak to your midwife and ask? It's not causing grief - you and your feelings are important!

You need to report that as a complaint immediately. Completely inappropriate, and how distressing for you.

He should not have kissed you. At all.

He shouldn't kiss anyone

I am a midwife. When examining the perineum after a birth, I often place two fingers on the lower part of the perineum to stretch the skin and look for tears as wekl as their depth and length. At the same time, I visually check for grazes. There is NO NEED to touch to "look again for grazes", let along "touch all around the labia". Grazes are easily seen without touching, in fact they would be very difficult to notice with a gloved hand.

And the kissing is absolutely inappropriate.

I would definitely complain.

I don’t mean to be rude but how could you ever think a medical professional KISSING you was appropriate in any situation?! Wasn’t your DP outraged when you told him?

Yes, definitely inappropriate. I’m sorry you’ve been pondering this so long

He KISSED you? This is never ever ok. Why did he do your? What was the context??

I'm not sure about his checking for tears. I think I was just checked generally for tears/grazes as they're not independent of each other.
I know I was cleaned up a bit whilst the midwife checked as I had bled a bit. I don't think anyone touched my labia but I don't think this would be an issue on its own as it's possibly a reasonable way to check? You need to speak with a midwife for clarity though. PALS can arrange this through a complaint.

You should definitely contact PALS and discuss both incidents. They may both paint a picture of this person.

How are you feeling OP? I imagine this is a challenging issue to revisit especially with another birth imminently.

There you go @aurynne, knew someone helpful would be along soon.

Definitely, definitely complain.

This is appalling ! and totally totally out of order ,Most certainly complain .What if he is doing it to more women and God Forbid went further, or a young scared girl was touched like this ?,He needs to be struck off!

@Charley34 your post implies that OP becomes responsible for the well being of other women - this man is responsible for his own behaviour. Direct your keyboard outrage somewhere else.

Raise it! I think you must know that this is really wrng- you just don't want to admit to yourself how wrong it is. Nowhere at 'midwife school' or on any other professional course would they be told to kiss people on the lips.

You should report him for this and also the checking for grazes thing, just in case. That could've been something normal we don't know about, and would seem less suspicious if it were without the kissing thing, but with that it sounds really wrong.

Even a couple of years on, you should report it, as he is still presumably working with women.

Completely agree with @allezallezallez - this is not your fault and not your responsibility to "fix" - he is the only one who can control his actions. This idea that it's somehow women's job to make men behave themselves is very dangerous.

I agree he was highly unprofessional with the kiss and I would take steps to address it. I am sure you can request a female midwife for your next birth and let them know you want to give explicit permission for any kind of intimate exam.

Thank you all for your replies, I really mean it. I'm sure part of it is hormones but I am feeling pretty emotional right now.

It does play on my mind about other women, I was 24 when it happened but regardless of age it's a really uncomfortable creeping feeling.

Regarding DP, I didn't tell him for a while and then when I did it was in more of a "har har isn't that a bit strange" way, but it's been playing more and more on my mind. Particularly the examination and your posts confirming it is not normal are quite alarming, because that's exactly what I thought - they don't treat grazes anyway so why the need to suss out exactly where they are. He literally ran his hands up and down each side and it's really freaking me out thinking about it.

I'm not sure what to do now, I spoke with DP and said I would post here for advice, he thinks I should mention it to lovely MW and thinks other women may have complained too if that's what he's like. But part of me wants to out it all behind me and just hope I don't get him or he no longer works there?

I know it sounds irrelevant but also he was only my MW for an hour or so, there was a shift change at 8pm and my son was born at 2 mins past 9 so it's not like we had built up this big rapport or anything. I also had a few other male staff as there was talk of a c section for a while because they were worried about heart rate, and no one else made me feel uncomfortable.

He also came down to see me the next day on the post natal ward to chat but I was exhausted after a 48 hour induction and emotional because my mum had just bought my DD to visit me and when I clearly wasn't interested in talking to him due to DD and tiredness and new baby, he stood chattering in my tiny curtained off section to the midwife who had been checking DS!!

Its not normal is it :(

Exactly what @aurynne said. Checking for years and grazes is one examination. Two fingers in the vagina, and a visual examination. A rectal examination is good practise too.

No way should any medical professional be kissing you.

I would complain, it's totally inappropriate.

I keep thinking of ways a kiss on the cheek as a ‘well done’ would be appropriate in this situation and it’s just not. Even if it was then you still felt uncomfortable so that’s what matters.

I’d raise a complaint. A man working as a midwife is quite unusual in the first place and they would have to be so careful about their conduct as they are with women at their absolute most vulnerable. It sounds like he took advantage of that.

The kissing - that is totally inappropriate.

And then put that together with his use of his hands in directly touching your inner labia to "check" - put those two together, and I think you're absolutely right to be concerned.

It sounds as though he was taking advantage of your post-delivery state. Not OK, at all

He kissed you? Nope nope nope. Report the bastard.

I'm unclear from your initial post - you don't have the same midwife this time, do you? Hopefully not but even if so I'd tell your current midwife about this just because you might find that it makes you twitchy about things that you would have been OK with before and it would be good for her to know that in advance so she can be extra cautious.

@Interestedwoman he didn't kiss me on the lips he kissed me on the cheek. Once my DP had left the room he kind of leant over me and was kind of like "something something, congratulations"

I don't really need people saying "oh you MUST know this is wrong" as I genuinely wasn't sure if I was overreacting, it has been playing on my mind for over 2 years and is causing me more and more stress.

No - none of this is normal.

I can fully understand you not reporting it at the time - you had plenty else on your mind!

I think that you should talk to the midwife and to PALS so that you can at last put this behind you.