To take Brexit personally?

[Fiep]

I’m preparing to be flamed but I really want to hear views from all sides. Do try to be kind though.

I’m an EU citizen. I’ve lived in the UK for all my adult life and have spent most of that working with NHS patients. I’m a qualified professional and there is a skills shortage - we never manage to fill all our posts.

Most people can’t tell by my accent that I’m from the EU and instead assume I’m from another English-speaking country unless I tel them my name (which sounds foreign) or speak in another language.

Before the referendum I felt the UK was my home. It was the place I’d spent most of my life and I’ve always loved the British humour and quirky way of looking at things.

Nobody ever gave me grief about being foreign and I felt welcome and valued.

Shortly after the referendum, someone verbally abused me on a bus when they overheard me speaking in a European language on the phone. It really upset me. I’m privileged by most measures and I’m white, so I was not used to racist abuse. I now have a baby and struggle to talk to her in my language in public as I feel people are giving me judgemental looks when I’m out and about and speaking “foreign”, especially as I live in a rural place where the majority of shoppers at the big Tesco are White British and I see quite a few Union Jack / St George’s flag tattoos. This denies her the chance to grow up bilingual and I feel guilty about that. I do speak / read / sing to her at home but it’s not enough immersion in the language for it to make a difference.

On the other hand, most of my colleagues in health have always been immigrants too and I struggle to see how the NHS would run if it was just White British staffed.

AIBU to feel really angry about Brexit? To feel it’s just vitriol and wanting the country to be white? To take it personally and to let it affect me in that way? To look around the shops and feel that prejudice has been legitimised?

I’d actually be really keen to hear from Leavers as well as Remainers as I really can’t get my head around how anyone could have thought this was a good idea for something as woolly as “sovereignty” or whatever.

braces self for impact

And, quite separately from fruit/pickers/Brexit, there is an enormous reckoning in food prices on the horizon. We've been freeloading on the planet, i.e. using methods that are good for humans and bad for everyone else, since the advent of farming and we're reaching the tipping point.

X posts.

Absolutely but how does abandoning the EU environmental laws hoverning standards of food production and animal welfare help this situation?

Emboldening correction!

Theresa May's comment about "if you are a citizen of the world you are a citizen of nowhere" is interesting.

That comment was as insulting as they come, espcially to those of us Brits who spend much of our time abroad defending UK interests.

Most people want a peaceful existence, but the autocracy proposed by globalism is about control, not real peace. It may lead to less fighting as people become too afraid to challenge those in charge, but that isn't true peace, it's just repression.

The humanity of all of us is what unites us. We don't need world political integration, or even EU integration to formalise it.

Eh? The EU is a regional response to STOP domination/globalisation led by major economic powers such as China and the USA. Why do you think Trump hates the EU?

Your assumptions are baseless, of course. The UK has led the charge on Co2 reduction and has a history of far greater reverence for animal welfare than any country in the EU. You might recall that the UK was far more proactive in banning battery hens than the EU, where enforcement was lax and late.

No "of course" about it. The precise figure is disputed but most government bodies agree that the UK imports approx 50-60 % of its food, which means that it is not only our welfare standards and carbon emissions that matter. The UK were indeed influential in the EU in those areas. Shame that will no longer be the case in future.

Surely, any sensible person can see that food production and environmental issues, - - with livestock and pollution cross national boundaries - require a consensual, response in cooperation with our nearest neighbours?

crossing national boundaries

ChristmasAngst who's the 'you' you keep addressing?
You keep referring to your experience as an expat but presumably you knew upfront about what hoops you'd have to jump through when moving there. You were quite aware of your status and not lulled into a false sense of security. Brexit has made many EU citizens miserable (especially those with families) because in OP's case after decades and basically forgetting about nationality and status (due to the reciprocal arrangements under FOM) they're told 'how dare you assume you belonged here, you're not one of us, we never thought you were one of us in the first place'. Of course not everyone is a xenophobe but there are enough out there to make people like OP feel uncomfortable.

Thank you @songsofexperience, that summarises how I feel really well. I hadn’t considered that the feeling started because the rules changed, and that’s why it’s different from moving somewhere like the US where rules are strict and communicated upfront. Thanks for your validation :)

Well if ever there was a threat to prove that (some) Leave voters ARE in fact racist and thick, this is it.

I'm sorry about what our country has become OP and I'm sorry you've been at the sharp end. Take comfort in the fact that if things get really bad you and your children can leave. My family only have UK passports and don't have highly sought after skills so after we've been stripped of our EU citizenship we're all going to be stuck here with the racist fools now running the shop.

No "of course" about it. The precise figure is disputed but most government bodies agree that the UK imports approx 50-60 % of its food, which means that it is not only our welfare standards and carbon emissions that matter. The UK were indeed influential in the EU in those areas. Shame that will no longer be the case in future.

So which is it - is the UK going to be an ecological hazard without the EU, or is the EU going to be an ecological hazard without the UK?

And yes of course we should cooperate internationally on environmental standards. Why should exiting the EU affect this?

Well if ever there was a threat to prove that (some) Leave voters ARE in fact racist and thick, this is it.

Well, certainly an abundance of remainer ignorance and racism has been revealed on this thread.

I created this thread to try to understand a side I don’t hear much from on a personal level (due to my own bubble), not to attack anyone

Songsof

I moved there under certain circumstances and my employment rights and conditions changed with their economic situation. For example, when we had the global financial crash in 2007, immigrants were made redundant before locals and trailing spouses had their working rights revoked. If you lost your job you had 30 days to go home. That was unforeseen and I don't remember calling the locals racists because my colleagues got the boot before them. It's totally understandable to put their own citizens first.

UAE, perchance? Our migrants pay taxes.

when we had the global financial crash in 2007, immigrants were made redundant before locals and trailing spouses had their working rights revoked. If you lost your job you had 30 days to go home.

Well to me that sounds pretty bad. I personally couldn't build a life (with children in tow) with that level of uncertainty. Again, it's one thing if you accept the risk upfront and another if you've made long term plans because you have the same rights as locals and then get the rug pulled from under you.

There are two kinds of EU citizens among my acquaintances: those who decided to leave before they got discriminated against and those who naturalised to avoid ever being treated like you were christmas.

@songsofexperience
Exactly, I’d not consider moving somewhere with crap rights and lack of parity between locals and immigrants (such as the UAE, which I also happen to know a bit about through family experience), so for the rule book to change after I have invested here is upsetting. Perhaps I wouldn’t have bought a house or had a child without corresponding security.

I can naturalise if I want to but it’s very expensive and you risk losing other passports not just for yourself but for your kids.

My family only have UK passports and don't have highly sought after skills so after we've been stripped of our EU citizenship we're all going to be stuck here with the racist fools now running the shop

You do realise that the majority of EU states, if not all, range from merely less tolerant than the UK to something like 'in the grips of a major epidemic of racism'?

How is that relevant? Even if it were true (can you back this up?) it wouldn't justify treating people badly. Surely we're better than that, aren't we?

YABU. Brexit is nothing to do with you and everything to do with British people voting for it - get over yourself please!

It's hard not to take it personally. It isn't. That doesn't make it any better or make you any more welcome. Neighbours telling me that it wasn't "about people like you (me)".
I remember the day after the referendum being told by someone, "Did you vote as well? It's so exciting! We're getting our country back." I mentioned that I wasn't allowed to vote and was met with the stunned question: "Why not?", ...Well, because I'm not a British citizen. I had no right to vote. It left the other person quite puzzled because most people didn't realise that I am indeed foreign. DH is British, so my surname is as well. I'm fluent in English and after having lived in the UK for most of my adult life, having been to uni there and worked there for over a decade, I don't have a foreign accent.

We moved to my EU country. DH is allowed to work here because he's married to me. DS attends a bilingual nursery. We earn more, work less, our house is bigger and healthcare and education are of a higher standard. The weather is better. :) Nevertheless, I miss the UK. It had been my home for so many years and we had our life there. It's a shame. We are hoping to move back in a few years, when things have hopefully settled back down. There was too much uncertainty since the referendum, though, so we took the decision to leave. We have jobs we can do anywhere in the world. I also didn't want DS to grow up having to feel ashamed or having to hide his bilingualism. He doesn't have to do that here.

I am in the same boat OP - white European (ironically non-EU) with a heavy accent and I stopped speaking to my children in my native language in public places after a couple of "go home" comments. All after the referendum, and what is sad, some of them came from very young people (13-14).
It is not even about me, I really struggle to explain to my children why a complete stranger suddenly turns nasty. But it really opened my eyes as to the existence of the white privilege when it comes to xenophobia and racism. As yourself, I was shielded all my life from it.

Brexit is nothing to do with you

Kind of is if you've spent your entire adult life here and raise your family here! Some people have really had an empathy bypass!

@Fuzzyspringroll I’ve had the neighbours thing happen too. I was so puzzled! If it’s not about “people like [me]” who was it about? What’s the subtext here?

@songsofexperience reading your and others’ validating words actually really helps me process this - thank you :)

So far on the thread I’ve had lots of kind words from people who wouldn’t like to leave, some kind words and useful thoughts from people who do want to leave, and only a sprinkling of unempathetic platitudes. There are some views I disagree with but generally people were able to be kind, even in disagreement, with some exceptions. The exceptions really made me realise I don’t want to cater my life or childrearing around some people with whom I share no values. So in that sense it’s been helpful.

It’s also made me feel less crazy to hear how many other immigrants are in my shoes and feel similarly. And that the funny looks aren’t imagined: but I’ve decided that the people who care about whether I speak “foreign” or not are just not the sorts of people who get to judge me.

I’ve also learned that my stereotyped view of the “Leaver” was inaccurate and that it is a diverse group, and that people have lots of reasons for voting this way. While I still disagree with the factual basis for the opinions, and feel sad about that, I can respect individuals’ decisions. Unless they’re the wankers who abuse someone speaking to their child. Them I don’t respect.

How is that relevant? Even if it were true (can you back this up?) it wouldn't justify treating people badly. Surely we're better than that, aren't we?

If you re-read my post, that's my point, that we are better than that.

YANBU My Eastern European family voted for Brexit. It's not about you, love.

*YABU (is what I meant)