To think my DP has a drink problem? He doesn't think so

[Pirandello24]

I genuinely can't see the wood for the trees with this one. My DP is perfectly able to have a drink or two with dinner, family events etc. However when he goes out with friends it's like he completely loses control. Last night he went out for "a few drinks" with a group of friends he hasn't seen for a while. It's mid week, we have two young non-sleeping DCs who we take it in turns to do nights/ mornings with- we agreed I'd do the night wakings if he got up with them at 6.30 to give me a bit of a lie in. I expected (or hoped really) that he'd come home after the pub has shut, quite tipsy, and pass out in bed til the morning.

Except at 1am I was woken up by a retching noise in my ear. DP was throwing up in bed, so drunk that he couldn't even turn his head to the side. He was choking on his sick whilst continuing to throw up. It was like something out of a medical drama tbh. I jumped out of bed, tried to push him on his side into the recovery position, petrified he was going to choke to death. He was so drunk I couldn't move him though, so had to sit there while he finishing puking and choking and crying "help me". Once he'd finished he passed out in his sick and I went to sleep in the spare room. Or more accurately, lie there crying and wondering what the fuck to do.

This isn't a one off. I've started to dread his nights out now as I know he'll say he's going out for a drink and end up rolling home God knows when. He's ruined weekend plans, been mugged on the train because he passed out. He's often in a foul mood the next day, and it really impacts badly on his anxiety. The hardest thing is that if I try to talk to him about it and say that this is not ok, he looks at me like I'm crazy, says he's doesn't have a problem. He'll never apologise unless I ask him too, and even then it's so grudging and almost contemptuous. I don't know what to do. Is it me? Should I be more understanding? I just don't want the kids to grow up with this.

That is horrendous. Yes he does have a problem, and yes, he does need to face it. The blurry line is the fact that it's a socially acceptable (in that he has mates to go out and get this bladdered with) but he is negatively impacting the entire family with this behaviour. Imagine if one of your children had witnessed him choking on his own vomit, sorry to be graphic but that might turn into your reality. Good luck, be strong, ignore his denial, keep telling him that it is terrifying you, and that he needs help.

I have been in a similar way to your husband. When I'm with my DH or family I can drink and not be too bad. When I'm with my friends, one in particular, I go back to feeling like I'm in my early 20s and go crazy. I don't know why. I do have low self-esteem and anxiety though. Eventually my DH said that he had started to dread my nights out as he had no idea what state I'd come back in.

I tried to control it. I tried to stop the last few drinks at the end of the night. But I realised it wasn't those last few drinks that were the problem. It was the first drink. So I quit. I had no problems quitting as I don't crave alcohol in any way. I stopped going on nights out for about a year and then slowly started going out occasionally with my friends but just stayed sober.

I had to realise it was a problem though. And at first, I didn't want to. Nights out were so fun and I felt like I belonged. Like I was popular and had lots of friends. It was fun talking about it all the next day, until my anxiety would set in. I'd be bad for weeks with anxiety.

It's when you stop drinking that you realise how much alcohol is shoved in our faces by the media and by friends or family. It's portrayed as this fun thing and it can be fun, if you have some self control. If you aren't drinking then it can feel like you are missing out.

I don't miss it. Your DH has to realise how bad it is for you though. He'll see you as a kill joy and ruining his fun. I know that's how I felt when people tried to address my drinking in the past. He has to realise he is going to lose his family if he continues. He'll try to control it at first but chances are he won't be able to. He has to quit drinking with those friends. Nights out can still be fun sober.

Oh that's so grim OP - people have died choking on their own vomit. Did he clear it up?

Does he acknowledge he's crossed a line with alcohol? There are other organisations aside from AA but but he needs to address this. Does he realise that?

I have a parent who did this. It's effected me long term, all the times I was sent in the pub to try and get them to leave (because sending an 8 yr old in her pyjamas would be more 'effective') the times I've been vomited over, had to watch that parent wet and soil themselves passed out on the kitchen floor, help drag the mattress downstairs for them to sleep on, the general anxiety of expecting them home, and them not coming back. And all the drunk comments, that have stuck with me. This was the 'culture' of their job supposedly, at least a monthly occurrence of severe binge drinking. And they all just laugh about it now, like it hasn't completely ruined my judgement of acceptable behaviour in relationships, my own relationship with alcohol (and my sisters, a massive binge drinker) and anxiety.
Honestly, an ultimatum is needed, because my parents didn't think this would effect their kids, or that it wasn't a problem.

It is disgraceful behaviour from him. Yes, he really does have a problem with alcohol. No, you don't need to be more understanding. In fact, understanding is the last thing you need to be.

You don't want the children growing up seeing this, and nor should they have to. So you need to dump him. He is already showing you who he really is and what your lives will be like with him, so pay attention to that and plan your exit with the children.

Good god. That is utterly awful. I'm so sorry that you have to go through this OP

I would do one of two things

1. Tell him that he needs to prove to you that he can go out and not drink alcohol. Once he's done this 3 times at least a new pattern with be forming

1. Tell him that for your peace of mind he needs to get help with his mental health drinking and once he's started getting the help you'll know you and the children will be safer

If he can't/won't do either of the above then I would

1. Take the children to stay with a friend or relative each time he goes out drinking. Each time ......and stay over night telling your host why

1. Leave him

Shit OP

Yes he clearly has a problem.

I think with alcohol there is a scale (it's not always black and white no problem / definite problem). I say this as someone who is probably borderline, I don't drink that often but when I do, I like to feel drunk and a couple of times a year I take it too far and will be sick (in a toilet, not down myself). I know it's not good for me but I don't hurt anyone else and I generally do it when I know I've got the morning off work and kids and it's not hurting me, or anyone else (other than a couple of bruises from banging into things, there have been no more serious consequences).

And I think the consequences are the key here and this is why I think your husband has a definite problem. There is a binge drinking culture in the UK, so in that respect hes not abnormal, but I dont know anyone that's thrown up in bed since they were a teenager. He was choking on his sick - one more drink and he might not have woken up. He literally, could have died. His drinking caused you to be up all night worried sick. That is not on. The mugging, the ruined weekends, the moods etc - it is negatively impacting on his life. Everyone that drinks has to weigh up the consequences eg being tired the next day vs having a good night, but the key here is that the consequences are affecting you and your children, not just him, and that's not fair. He is effectively choosing a night out with his friends over you getting a good nights sleep, over spending quality time with his children etc

However I'd he doesn't think he has a problem I think it will be very difficult to get him to change. You will have to see whether you can cope with it otherwise leave. Could he at least stay over at a hotel when he has been out in the mean time so you dont have to deal with him?

I am really trying not to cry with some of your kind replies. I spoke to him very briefly this morning when I told him to clean all the sick up. He remembered being sick but not the choking part. Didn't apologise until I said "aren't you going to apologise?". I'm not sure if this was the right thing to do but i took pictures of him sleeping in his sick and sent them to him. I'm now out for the day and haven't heard from him, but will speak to al-anon before I get home and talk to him

I am male though my name is not Arnold. I'm quite the crashing bore when it comes to alcohol as i dont really bother too much with it. I can go weeks without any drink and even so, it might only be a glass of wine with a meal or a glass of real ale and thats about it really. If my GF came home like that it would be a big issue for me and if it was repeated drunkeness id bin her off,simples. I realise your situation is a bit different. No one likes to be puked on.

I have no words.

You need to leave unless he promises (and means it) to give up drink.

Totally unacceptable.

Urg this is grim. He needs to actually admit this is not ok and that he can't control himself when out on these occasions, or you'll get nowhere. Good luck xxx

I think for a lot of alcoholics who behave like that, the problem is that they don't remember or weren't able (because they were drunk) to fully comprehend how awful their behaviour is when they're wasted.

They wake up, have a horrible secret crushing shame about the bits they CAN remember, realise the only coping mechanism is to go into complete denial mode: 'it wasn't THAT bad, surely, just a laugh, ho ho ho'.

They don't realise how painful and gaslighty that denial is to their family/friends/whomever. Literally for them to cope, they have to deny you the thing that would make it a bit better, acknowledgment of how awfully they've been behaving.

OP. Being closely involved with a problem drinker is such an agonising, lonely thing. I think that you did the right thing photographing him.

OP, I personally think your DP is on the side of NOT normal and NOT acceptable, as he has 2 small DC to care for and when he goes off the rails like this it puts all the pressure on you, which is totally unfair. There is also a big safety element - drunk people can cause safety issues, and like you noticed, people that hungover are not in a fit state to be looking after children.
Sure, everyone might let loose and drink more than is sensible at times; I'm not against drinking at all. Passing out on the train, puking in bed etc - these are not great, even when you're childfree - but when you've got the responsilitiy of children, these become really unacceptable, especially if they are part of a regular pattern of behaviour, not simply unintentional one-offs.
I also find it very upsetting that he doesn't feel remorse at these actions, doesn't feel like he needs apologise to you - because it impacts you greatly. The fact that he doesn't even seem to realise this is worrisome. He should be falling over himself the next day with apologies and trying to make things better and make some changes to prevent it happening again.
You definitely don't need to be more understanding OP, it's DP who needs to understand the reality of the situation and make some changes. You and DC definitely should not have to live with that. Good luck OP.

OP, every time he does this film it on your phone, and make him watch it when he's sober. Every time.

He might be blacking out and not have much memory of the kind of state he was in. Make sure he knows. Leave him in his puke, and make him wash the sheets afterwards.

This is very serious OP.
Unfortunately, it’s not your problem to solve, but his.
Your support is irrelevant here. He has to do this entirely by himself otherwise it won’t work.

Your choices are very stark and simple - either stay (and expect it to gradually get much, much worse) or you leave and take the children.

As the daughter of an alcoholic, I plead with you for the sake of your children to protect them from this. They may be young now, but even by the age of 8 I was affected by my Mum's inability to control her drinking. Having to wait in the car while my Dad carried my vomit-covered mother from the car to bed after picking her up from a work function. Lying in bed at night shaking but terrified to sleep incase she choked on her own vomit. Listening to her half-hearted apologies, knowing that it would happen again. No child should have to live with that. My Mum was the drinker, but my Dad didn't stop her. He enabled it and in doing so failed to protect me from it.

It doesn’t really matter if there is a diagnosis - amateur or otherwise - of alcoholic or problem drinker. He’s being a total arse and he’s making you unhappy and pressured. He’s not facing up to it, and he will do it again and it will get worse. He will piss the bed. He will shit on the bathroom or bedroom floor. He will open wardrobes and piss in there. He will be a mess in front of friends and your children. He will be horribly embarrassing. He will then lie about it and accuse you of making a huge fuss about nothing.

I have very little sympathy with people who drink like this and lie and fail to seek help, putting their loved ones through hell. I accept the craving for alcohol can be overwhelming, but lying about it, minimising it and affecting children’s well being and safety? That’s a choice.

I have been up close and personal with this. Stop sympathising with him and take action, even if that means leaving.

Sorry I really feel for you but this is also bringing back memories of my childhood. Being parented by someone who is 'out of control' (no matter what that is, through alcohol, drugs, mental illness, anger) was for me one of the most terrifying memories of my childhood. It has lingered with me for years and has affected me profoundly. Please do your kids a favour and leave.

And it did get worse. As a young teen I used to dread coming home from school, dread the evenings knowing she would crack open the vodka and her mood would turn sour, argumentative and aggressive. I spent all my time in my room, or out as I got older. It's left me with major self-esteem issues, and a desperate need to 'keep the peace' as I would do anything to avoid confrontation.

I'm ashamed to admit that the best years I had with her, apart from my young childhood, were when I was in my late teens and she got cancer. Chemo meant she couldn't drink, and I got my Mum back. Then she died when I was 21.

It's a very sorry tale, but a very real one. Not all alcoholics are lying on park benches. My Mum was a respectable woman, with a supportive family and a full-time, responsible job. PM me if you want to talk.

Doesn’t matter what your ‘D’H thinks / promises.

What do you think?

How much more do you want to put up with?
How much more mental load do you want to take on?

• shielding the kids
• coping strategies
• covering up
• cleaning up

How far into recovery are you, or just in denial?

Must be a turn on fucking a man child, then cleaning his vomit.

I must admit that I haven't read all the previous replies (at work) but wanted to comment.

I'm a man and an alcoholic so, although it will make me unpopular, it would not be unreasonable for me to offer my angle.

Personally, I don't think he's an alcoholic BUT he's on that road. He is, however, a drunk which is an addiction in itself. He is addicted to getting drunk and uses any excuse (old friends, works do, whatever) as an excuse to massively over-indulge.

By saying he isn't an alcoholic, I'm not attempting to belittle the problem as it is quite obviously a serious problem. At the moment he is able to function without alcohol but, trust me, his 'sessions' will get more regular and the excuses more flimsy (Friday, bad day at work, minor achievement etc) until he is physically reliant on it.

It's how I started (and continued), convincing myself that 'it wasn't a problem' because I was going to work and not putting vodka on my cornflakes or drinking white cider in the park.

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do unless he wants to change except offer an ultimatum. Being in a relationship with a drunk is annoying, unpredictable and unpleasant but being married to an alcoholic is lonely. I'm sorry I can't offer any advice but don't accept his behaviour and don't be afraid to confront him about his drinking.

Sending you all my best.

My ex (same sex couple) was like this. Did not know how bad it was until I moved in. Like this, it wasn't all the time, but it was out of control. She collapsed on the street and was carried home by a stranger, more than once. Incoherent mess, wouldn't remember much and then gaslight. That's long over now. But afterwards I was doing some reading about co-dependency etc and came across the quotation 'Alcoholics do not have relationships. They take hostages.' which really resonated for me.
Not taking the mugging seriously or nearly choking to death is very very bad. Sorry OP..

I'm not sure if this was the right thing to do but i took pictures of him sleeping in his sick and sent them to him. I'm now out for the day and haven't heard from him, but will speak to al-anon before I get home and talk to him

OP, yes - you are doing the right thing here.

I’d film him and I’d show him when he’s sober. He’s in denial. He needs to see how distressing it is seeing him crying for help, passing out, choking on vomit etc etc. If that alone doesn’t work, I’d ask him to get professional help or I’d look to remove myself from the situation entirely because, as you rightly say, this is not fit parenting from him and it could become really distressing for your children.

YANBU. At all.