To ask how you can live with yourself if you use Amazon

[paperbeatsrock]

Just kidding! All those political threads asking how people can possibly vote for X or Y must be getting to me.

I use Amazon. (While I’m frequently ordering from a vendor rather than Amazon themselves, Bezos still gets his cut.) Yet, the more I read about them, the more I realise I’m part of the problem. So I guess my question is, do you have stern words with yourself for using them, but keep doing it anyway?

I use Amazon.

Although the business is unethical, the remedy to that is to vote in a government that will legislate to ensure that they must act ethically. Using Amazon and voting conservative - you share in the blame.
Using Amazon and voting elsewhere - fine.

They shouldn't be allowed to treat their customers like crap and pay hardly any tax. However, me deciding to take on more costs and time-consuming legwork to buy what I need elsewhere isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to whether or not that happens, so I don't think it's wrong for me to be a customer.

When the law starts forcing them to act reasonably, and their prices go up to pay for it, I will probably still be a customer as I will value the convenience.

I bet we could find a "ta-da" unethical thingy that all those Amazon boycotters do.
Have children?
Drive?
Live in a bigger house than they need to?
Use formula? Use Pampers?
Have a Maccy D's every so often?
Vote Libdem?
Send their kids to nice schools out of the catchment area?

As for the high street shops closing- yeah but no but. Mothercare was overpriced guff preying on the fact that hey! You're having a baby! You'll be wanting to spend an obscene amount of money on a romper suit that will be worn for a fortnight! Etc etc.

I don't get books from them. Local bookshop more deserving.
But I get loads of other stuff.

So you keep saying. But it's still easier to go on one website, order five items and pay than it is to go around several different websites, pay several lots of delivery and have to wait in for several different couriers

Right. But I'm not saying it to people saying "I use Amazon because it's easier to go on one website, order five items and pay than it is to go around several different websites, pay several lots of delivery and have to wait in for several different couriers". I'm replying to the ones saying "I use Amazon because it's easier than spending the afternoon traipsing around the shops".

I bet we could find a "ta-da" unethical thingy that all those Amazon boycotters do

And that would be a really tired argument because nobody is claiming to be perfect.

I'm replying to the ones saying "I use Amazon because it's easier than spending the afternoon traipsing around the shops"

But it is easier than doing that. And much cheaper too. You avoid parking charges, traffic and long journeys that way.

But it is easier than doing that. And much cheaper too. You avoid parking charges, traffic and long journeys that way.

Well obviously! But saying I use amazon because it's easier than going to the shops implies that those are the two options we have. Which is clearly untrue! It's kind of weird that so many people have implied it.

I'm self-employed - if I traipsed round the shops for 2 hours I couldn't work for that time. It's not just laziness!

Quite right TheCanterbury.

And probably vote conservative and eat loads of meat, and fly all over the place.

Perhaps like carbon offsetting, we could do ethical offsetting. Sure, I shop at Amazon. But I walk or cycle everywhere, give £20 to charity each month, buy the Big Issue, don't eat meat, recycle correctly and cuddle kittens. Bing! I'm ethically neutral.

I'm just saying let's not pretend we all HAVE to buy from Amazon and have no other choice. We do. We choose convenience and a small saving because that's what we care most about that. We should at least just admit it.

It's no different to people "choosing" to go to supermarkets in preference to their corner shops (before they were all forced out of business!). Unless you want to live in a Soviet state, most people want to have choices.

I have zero Amazon guilt. I don't really care about whether or not the shops on our high street stay open. Why would I pay for something from a local shop if I can get it sometimes half the price on Amazon? That's more money saved for my family. Shopping is a hideous experience these days, parking is a nightmare and costs more than delivery since we have prime which more than pays for itself.
I just don't feel bad. Meh!

Well obviously! But saying I use amazon because it's easier than going to the shops implies that those are the two options we have. Which is clearly untrue! It's kind of weird that so many people have implied it.

You're just being obtuse here. They're saying out of all the options (Amazon, a different online retailer and physically going to the shops), Amazon works out to be the cheapest and most convenient option.

I can't reist going back to it. This morning I was looking for the only lipbalm that works on my lips, which is Japanese. I found loads of Japanese and US sites that would deliver it for £££ and then tried Amazon who delivered it free with Prime. So I went with them.

I know there are, Apex but none as fast or convenient as Amazon. It’s also proved secure and transparent in all the years I’ve used them and their own delivery service is pretty good. Other websites use Hermes or UPS etc who are without fail totally shite when I’ve ordered.
Returns are also easy and any problems I’ve had have been sorted quickly. I’m not that bothered about free delivery via Prime and don’t favour Marketplace sellers that offer it.

People used to live and work in town centres, so shopping there too was easy. Now people live and work in different places, out of town centres, so it's just no longer convenient, made worse with stupidly high council car park charges, anti-car one way systems/traffic calming, etc. Things change, town centres dominated only with shops was just a fleeting short term anomaly in the big scheme of things. Like it or not, the internet is the future, both for shopping, leisure and work. Fight it if you like but probably best just to embrace it.

This conversation is getting a bit convoluted and circular, so I will break down my point and then just leave it at that, instead of repeating myself.

Most online stores deliver within a few days.
Most delivery costs are just a few pounds.
The poor working conditions Amazon offers are very, very well documented.
Amazon is basically a monopoly that stifles competition.

For ME PERSONALLY, I can afford a few extra quid, a few more minutes googling the product, and I don't need things next day, so the balance is worth it to avoid lining the pockets of a company I don't like.

Some people will not have any choice financially.

Many, many people will have a choice, but don't care. I would argue more people probably should care.

That's it.

I use Amazon because a lot of things I really can't buy locally.
I could if I wanted to go 50-100 miles or so to shop & pay more for each item.
I also use plenty of other online stores - almost all my shopping is online.
I paid £59 for the year which includes music, a free book each month & tv stuff.
That's less than going to town on the bus (it's miles away) once a week where the prices are higher, the service is dreadful & they usually are out of stock of what I want if they even had it at all.

I've just come back after 13 years in Belgium. The Belgian government doesn't allow Amazon to operate there as it considers that it undercuts retailers. All very laudable.

There is Amazon UK, FR, DE and now NL from which to order, so the Belgians don't dip out. VAT on books in Belgium is 21%, so it's cheaper for me to pay postage or wait til I'm back in UK to buy. Competition isn't less, as people find cheaper solutions, especially as Belgium is not a cheap place to live...from food to 21% VAT on gas and electric to what I consider expensive prices for white goods and clothing. Belgians are also highly taxed, so costs matter.

I'm not overly convinced by all the high street arguments, that;s economics doing it's thing and yes it is the governments job to sort out taxation but the amount of packaging used in deliveries is a genuine thing.

So we've just cut the amount of plastic bags being produced for shops but the plastic and cardboard now used in delivering individual items is insane. Its not a case of just recycling. Only a small proportion is actually recycled due to capacity and suitability, the majority will end up in landfill and there are immense environmental costs in recycling itself. We need to be using less, not just making ourselves feel better by popping it in a recycling bin.

But whatever - I'm sure I'll be accused of virtue signalling.

I used to work for them, they aren't a great employer but get a much worse press about working conditions than is fair imo.

The tax situation I blame the government for, many many companies and individuals pay much less tax than they should in a fair world, but its not illegal.

I know I'm in the minority though.

I don’t feel the need to punish a successful company which had the vision to prescience to predict accurately changes in consumer behaviour. I support my local businesses when they offer a better product or better service and use Amazon for what it does better. I still but books at bookstores but also use Amazon for Kindle books and books I just can’t find easily. I also love Audibles and the convenience which Prime brings. The return policy is easy, especially now with their no label drop offs.

Jeff Bezos is an odd one, but his end goal is to be able to fund space flight and possible colonisation of space with the billions he will/is getting from Amazon. I have no problems with this goal.

Apex prey. Am fairly new to Online Shopping ,and not sure if some websites are reputable or not .so prefer to buy from Amazon or E bay If I can .Is there a way of checking? feel a bit silly asking this, but really not too sure .

I haven't used Amazon for books for ages because it completely sucks all the pleasure and spontaneity out of book-buying.

Amazon is my absolute last place to go if I am trying to buy something. I hate it with a vengeance and will only use it if it is something I can't find anywhere else and it is really necessary.

I also refuse to buy anything that might be in any way whatsoever connected to Mike Ashley. I would rather go without it than support him. Often pass his house and the loathing I feel is unbelievable.

Most online stores deliver within a few days.

Yes, but at a cost. And multiple deliveries from multiple shops soon add up. It's much easier and more convenient to order everything at once and only pay one set of costs.

Most delivery costs are just a few pounds.

See above. Amazon also refund you any delivery charge (and often give you the item for free) if it doesn't arrive on time too. I don't know any other retailer that does that. If they make a mistake, they often tell you to keep the extra items as well, rather than make you post them back.

The poor working conditions Amazon offers are very, very well documented.

I don't see people boycotting ASDA, Primark or any other company that has poor working conditions. Why should they only boycott Amazon?

Amazon is basically a monopoly that stifles competition.

That's what what happens when a business is successful. People are often time-poor and will buy from places where they know they'll get what they ordered in a decent time-frame. There have been numerous posts on here where people have said they've tried to shop locally and haven't found what they wanted, or they've tried other websites and the cost has been double what Amazon have charged once you factor in delivery.