To ask how you can live with yourself if you use Amazon

[paperbeatsrock]

Just kidding! All those political threads asking how people can possibly vote for X or Y must be getting to me.

I use Amazon. (While I’m frequently ordering from a vendor rather than Amazon themselves, Bezos still gets his cut.) Yet, the more I read about them, the more I realise I’m part of the problem. So I guess my question is, do you have stern words with yourself for using them, but keep doing it anyway?

If you use Smile Amazon they donate money to your chosen charity

So you end up back on amazon

Yeah, I'm not saying I never use Amazon. But saying you have to use Amazon or go to the shops is just ridiculous, isn't it? I did my christmas shopping online a week or two ago. I got some books from an online second-hand book shop, a videogame from an online videogame store, some hardware thing from screwfix online shop, and a few little things from Amazon. The delivery on all of them was less than 5 days and all arrived in time. I probably spent about £5 more than I would have if I had bought them all on Amazon (the second-hand book was cheaper though so maybe not). To me it was worth the extra 5 minutes and possible extra £5 just to support a few smaller (but not exactly small) businesses who very likely don't treat their employees so badly.

I tried to order something made in the UK from a small UK company recently about 150 miles away from me, paying more for the privilege of course. They sent completely the wrong item then at first said I'd have to return the wrong item before I could get the correct one. When I got shirty with them they dispatched the correct item- all this took about three weeks and ten emails.

I have never had this with Amazon. In 20 years I've had one fraudulent seller and got a full refund.

What killed the high street was shitty, drab, reductive, chain store shopping with a poor customer experience, not Amazon. Shopping was bloody awful in the 80s and 90s, wandering around all day to find the specific thing you had in mind. I embraced online shopping completely from the start.

Have to agree with that. The chain stores killed off the small independents. Now the internet is killing off the chain stores. What goes around comes around. What is good though is that the internet gives a platform for small/independents to start small and grow - far better than 20+ years ago when they had to rent expensive shops. The internet could mean we become a "national of small shop-keepers" again, albeit via online with websites and selling platforms. I have a client who started a small craft based business from home with a home made website - within a few years, they had a turnover of 1.5 million pounds - not bad from basically a kitchen table start up - they couldn't have done that with a traditional B&M shop.

I can't think of any other shopping website that is as convenient as Amazon

Yep you're right there. That's the choice everyone makes. To support huge multinational companies and unscrupulous business practices because it's a little bit cheaper and easier, or not. The choice is not Amazon vs. going to the local shops though, which at least 10 people have said it is.

I love amazon. Have been using them from the start and won’t be stopping anytime soon. Far too
convenient

That's great Apex that you can afford to pay extra to support smaller online retailers (and I mean that genuinely). But for many families right now it's 'every penny counts' and spending extra on delivery charges when they don't have to isn't going to be a viable option.

Shearwater I've no doubt that Amazon is easier and more convenient. But let's not paint a picture where every other online store is some useless two-bit operation and we have no choice but to order from Amazon if we want to receive the correct goods and in less than a month. I order from many different websites all the time and 99% of the time it's a totally smooth and reliable process.

I use them fairly often as it saves me a 20mile round trip into town. I do the same with supermarket shopping too and use delivery services for at least half my food shops each month.

On top of a busy week this saves me so much time and petrol. Plus I can have most items the next day.

It also means I enjoy my trips into town more as I can plan them when I have time to browse.

I try to be so ethical in all areas of my life but Amazon is my weakness. They're just so convenient, they sell everything I want, they deliver the next free free of charge, I use Amazon Prime Movies and music.

That's great Apex that you can afford to pay extra to support smaller online retailers (and I mean that genuinely). But for many families right now it's 'every penny counts' and spending extra on delivery charges when they don't have to isn't going to be a viable option.

Yep, I was never arguing against that. I was arguing that it's not Amazon vs. going to the shops.

Also worth noting is that:

The product itself is often not cheapest on Amazon. Copy and paste the product and model into google and you can often find it cheaper elsewhere.
Shipping is not free or next day if you don't have Prime. You have to pay, just as you do on any other website. And I'm guessing most people who are struggling to pay for shipping are paying £75 a year or however much it is for Prime membership.

To support huge multinational companies and unscrupulous business practices because it's a little bit cheaper and easier, or not. The choice is not Amazon vs. going to the local shops though, which at least 10 people have said it is

It's not as simple as big company = bad small company = good

Amazon were small when I started to use them. They didn't make a profit for 14 years.

yes, there are other websites... we know

Sometimes it's easier - and a lot cheaper - to order everything from 1 like Amazon than ordering from 10 different websites.

Sometimes John Lewis is surprisingly cheaper, especially on household appliances, even duvets and so on. Sometimes they are not.
Sometimes Smyths is better deal for toys, sometimes not.

Amazon is not my enemy anyway, why should they be

And I'm guessing most people who are struggling to pay for shipping are paying £75 a year or however much it is for Prime membership

For which you get a lot more than free delivery, of course. It's very good value for money.

It depends what I am ordering, some things I prefer to get from John Lewis using the Waitrose next day C&C as they give an extended guarantee and are often a similar price. so for something like a mobile phone, TV, etc my best choice would be JL

Actually that’s not true , I only got prime this year and before that some products were still free delivery without that .

While Amazon are not of course breaking any laws, the worker conditions, tax avoidance and massive carbon footprint have made them a big no with me for some years. I do have an Amazon fire tablet although I bought it from John Lewis...

I can't say I've done without anything - my local town is full of shops that sell all I need and ALWAYS at lower prices than Amazon. The only thing that might cost more is a christmas present book, but if we want to keep real bookshops that pay taxes then that's how it is. I note that if I were to buy it online, there's somewhere charging half the Amazon price.

I do want to buy some music downloads (that is buy, not pirate) - that's a challenge without Amazon but there must be somewhere.

I buy most things online including a lot from Amazon. I don’t remember the last time I was in a real shop. I will support my local high street when the shops sort out proper wheelchair access.

It’s currently impossible for me to get my son’s wheelchair down the aisle in any of the shops because they insist on blocking with boxes and baskets of stuff in every one. Some pay lip service to accessibility by having a ramp at the door but we still can’t actually get around to look at stuff.

It’s ridiculous that in 2019 we can’t access anything but the bank.

Yes you do pay for annual prime membership Apex. But don't forget that includes all the TV services etc as well for that membership price. And if you order a lot online it works out a lot cheaper to pay for annual prime membership than a few quid on delivery on every item you order throughout the year.

I'm genuinely not arguing with you. I just think at the moment Amazon is just too convenient for many people to not use them. And I think that unless the high street and other online retailers try to find their own niche to compete on, there going to get beaten by Amazon every time. There just doesn't seem to be much 'fighting back' that I'm seeing from other retailers. They're all just trading in the same way they always have done and not really finding any way to attract customers back.

I definitrly use it less than I did. But sometimes it is by far the easiest option. I dont mind spending a bit more to get something locally but thats not always possible.

It's not as simple as big company = bad small company = good

Of course. But Amazon is an unscrupulous company with very controversial business practices. So I would choose another company over them when possible. It's often no more expensive.

Amazon were small when I started to use them. They didn't make a profit for 14 years

I don't really understand what your point is. You don't need to justify yourself really. You choose to support Amazon because it's more convenient. That's your decision.

Amazon is not my enemy anyway, why should they be

I don't know about "enemy". If you care about whether you buy from ethical companies or not, then you should avoid them. If you don't care, then fine.

Here's a brief overview of why some people are trying to avoid them:

www.businessinsider.com/amazon-employees-describe-peak-2019-2

Before anyone says "all companies are shitty to their employees" - some obviously are shittier than others.

The choice is not Amazon vs. going to the local shops though, which at least 10 people have said it is.

But for most people, that is the choice, unless you want to fork out £5 for each item to be delivered.

If I lived closer to a place with decent shops, I'd shop there, but I don't. In the last six months I've probably gone to my local town centre (45 minutes drive away) twice, and both of those times I was on annual leave.

The death of the high street is down to so many other things that aren't to do with Amazon. Increased parking charges, expensive public transport, poor infrastructure, increased high street rents, the increase of out-of-town business parks and shopping centres all have a much bigger impact.

I used to use Amazon a lot more because

1. I hate shopping;
2. I could often find things that I couldn't find in other shops;
3. I found it useful to read the reviews;
4. the purchasing/shipping process is easy, because all of my details are already in there.

I don't have any moral problem using it. BUT, I have found that lately I have been using Amazon less and less. This is mainly because

1. I'm finding that I can no longer find what I'm looking for on Amazon, but often have better luck at other online shops;
2. so many of the reviews seem to be fake, and the quality of many of the products seems to be declining (it's now hard to tell if you're going to get a low-quality item, because it might still be very well rated with lots of fake reviews);
3. they're delivery practices are downright bizarre (leaving half-opened packages on my doorstep in plain sight, delivering at odd hours in the evening, leaving packages with "neighbours" who are halfway down the block, etc).

I've been doing lots of online shopping over the past few weeks in preparation for a new baby, and I've honestly been surprised how little of it has come from Amazon.

I don't know about "enemy". If you care about whether you buy from ethical companies or not, then you should avoid them. If you don't care, then fine.

Not everyone can afford to be ethical when it comes to shopping, though. Primark is also pretty poor ethically but people still shop there because it's cheap and convenient.

You also don't need Prime to qualify for free delivery, so long as you're happy to wait a few days for your items to arrive.

To be honest Im sick of hearing about people boycotting amzon and others because of their tax avoidance. Whatever we think about the morality of it, they are using legal loopholes. And who wouldnt if they could? So its really up to whatever government is in power to close those loopholes.