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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Another Universal Credit rant

93 replies

Basecamp65 · 26/11/2019 09:50

I am supporting a man who has serious MH issues - he was released from prison 3 months ago after serving 5 years - he was sectioned twice in the last year whilst in prison and was on 15min suicide watch until the moment of release.

He has been signed off sick by the GP and has had his work capacity interview and is waiting for the result.

He worked every day of his life from 14 until he went to prison at 38 and wants to go back to work but the thought of working 35hrs a week is far too daunting for him right now - he cannot leave the house on his own.

A friend has offered him a few hours a week working at a kennels, cleaning down the cubicles and walking some of the dogs. He feels like he could cope with this as he does not have to talk to anyone and at only 2 hrs a day 3 days a week it is not too overwhelming. He feels this could be a real starting point - it is possible he could increase his hrs at the kennels until he is pretty much full time as he feels better and more able to cope with the world. Obviously this would not be enough to live on - his rent alone is £1200pcm for a single room in a hostel.

I spoke to the universal credit helpline and have been told that if his assessment comes back that he is either totally unable to work or has limited capability to work taking this job will nul and void this decision and he may be determined fit for work and forced to look for full time work. This decision will be made by a decision maker that has never met or spoken to him, not by his job coach or anyone who has actually met him.

He now feels completely unable to take this risk and has turned down the job. I think most people will agree there is a massive difference between being able to work a few hours a week as a stepping stone and being able to work full time. Surely the limited capability to work should mean he could take a small job like this - and in theory it does - but apparently even if this is accepted it would only be for 12 months and then he would be expected to be working full time.

Of course it may be accepted that this job still meets the criteria for limited capacity to work and he may progress really well and be ready for full time work in 12 months but the risk is far to great for him to take.

If he is found to have no capacity to work he will get extra benefit that would be more than he earns but he would still rather try this small job and get less benefit but that comes with such a risk he cannot do this. He also may start this job and find he cannot cope even with this and then the whole work capacity assessment would have to start all over again.

My brother is in the limited capacity to work bracket for mental health issues as well and does absolutely nothing at all and continues to receive money - I spoke to him about this and he was told the same - he was offered a small job helping a mate on market stalls on a Saturday and he had to refuse it for the same reason. He feels if he had been able to take this job he would be doing much better now - maybe not working full time but certainly working. He was a welfare rights lawyer - on £60K before having his catastrophic breakdown and he says this is the way UC works.

I have done so much work with this man and had got him to a point he felt he could begin his life again - albeit gradually - and Universal Credit has just kicked him back down - I left him today saying he wants to go back to prison as life on universal credit in a hostel is so crap it is little better than prison and comes with all sorts of hassle - in prison he was left alone.

AIBU in being really pissed off - this all seemed to me to be a really great option, allowing him to build up his confidence and stamina but apparently not - in universal credit land a single man is either unable to work at all or able to work full time and there is little option in between.

Has anyone any experience of these decisions - what is the likelihood of him being accepted as only able to work these hours and what happens after 12 months?

OP posts:
AutumnCrow · 27/11/2019 22:36

@Tetraread Thank you for spotting my post, and yes that kind of evidence has gone in, thanks for giving me hope it my be accepted. It's been over four weeks since the UC50 was sent in with lots of supporting documentation (recorded delivery) and there's been not so much as an acknowledgement.

AutumnCrow · 27/11/2019 22:37

may not my, sorry

Tetraread · 27/11/2019 22:50

Keeping everything crossed for you both, not that this should be the case that evidence has to be sent and the long wait for a reply. Hopefully reforms and changes are on the way.

MiniMum97 · 27/11/2019 23:14

What you have been told is incorrect. There is no "permitted work" as such under UC but you can still do some work (there is a monetary limit each month) and still be considered to have a limited capability for work. There is the possibility DWP may decide to reassess you if you start some work, but this was always the case with ESA too. Starting work under the limit set in the UC regulations does not invalidate the work capability assessment decision. That is NOT correct.

I don't have my resources with me at the moment but will come back tomorrow and give you the sources of this information. It doesn't surprise me that you are being told incorrect information by DWP about UC. This happens all of the time about even very basic rules.

The real risk really is not that he isn't able too to the work because he should be able to. It's more that DWP will misunderstand the rules, stop his benefit, and you will have a fight on your hands for months potentially to get the rules applied correctly.

AutumnCrow · 27/11/2019 23:54

It's the fear of sanctions and the actual misapplied sanctions that are horrendous and negatively life-changing, I agree.

Especially around the rent element. A misapplied sanction for two months for a lot of people equals eviction and homelessness.

The DWP can't even acknowledge returned forms detailing severe visibility after four weeks plus.

Basecamp65 · 28/11/2019 06:47

@markH321
I only heard of the IPP sentences whilst my friend was in jail. These truly are an abomination in a civilised country. He said the guys on them were like zombies - the walking dead. Some had commited crimes that warranted 6 months or a year in prison and still have no sign of a release date 10 years later.

One person we became of aware of commited a household burglary and got a mobile phone from it. She is still in prison 12 years later. She was told she needs to complete a certain course to progress to the next stage and this is only provided at 1 prison in the UK - she is sitting rotting for a place to be offered - for 7 years - 50k a year this is costing. She has cancer now and had her chemo cancelled 17x's by the prison. The hospital gave her a chair as it is bowel cancer and there are only hard chairs in prisons which were too uncomfortable to sit on and the prison would not let her have it as it is not prison issue. She should have been released 10 years before she developed cancer.

None of the issues we are facing on UC compare even slightly to what IPP prisoners are going through

But most people are completely unaware off then. As you say these sentences were deemed illegal and abolished for new convictions but the people on them already have been forced to remain on them - these illegal sentences are being enforced by the courts and the justice system.

OP posts:
Harv2008 · 28/11/2019 07:19

His rent is £1200 pcm because it is supported accommodation which includes all bills. This is paid fully by the council under housing benefit.

fadedafternoons · 28/11/2019 07:42

I think the extortionate rent is the problem here. I really do.

Harv2008 · 28/11/2019 08:18

See my post. He doesn't have to pay his rent the council does

fadedafternoons · 28/11/2019 08:21

Yes, but if he is working then what happens?

Council paying or not £1200 is absolutely ridiculous.

gobbynorthernbird · 28/11/2019 08:30

I was under the impression that UC meant no housing benefit. Is that not correct?

gobbynorthernbird · 28/11/2019 08:31

That should say no separate housing benefit.

Musereader · 28/11/2019 08:33

This is bullshit, i have at least 3 clients with LCWRA who work part time. Who ever told you this is just wrong. It is taken onto account at next review but it does not automatically nullify it.

Musereader · 28/11/2019 08:34

Supported accommodation is an exeption to the uc rules ob housing and is still paid by separate housing benefit.

gobbynorthernbird · 28/11/2019 08:37

Ah, OK. Cheers.

ThatUserNamesTakenTryAnother · 28/11/2019 08:51

VOTE LABOUR

Basecamp65 · 28/11/2019 13:30

@fadedafternoons. When he leaves the hostel and goes into rented accomadation he will be lucky to get anything under £1000 pcm. Council studio flats are £800 and this will be without bills or support.

My daughter rented the cheapest 2 bed house avaliable 3 years ago £1100pcm.

Our housing crisis is much more than just rough sleepers.

OP posts:
fadedafternoons · 28/11/2019 13:37

Of course it is, that’s why I asked.

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